Basically yes. But get over it. That's kinda like saying it is unfair we didn't know Apple shares would get so high.<div><br></div><div>There are many situations where if we'd known at the time, we'd all be better off... but seriously... pay more attention, take more chances... and stop whinging about "What Could've Been". Not personally directed at you.. but anyone who feels hard done by.</div>
<div><br></div><div>ISPs in Australia are meaningless in the scale of things. Try the billion in India and China who wish they had gotten in earlier. This then would have been a discussion we would have had YEARS ago...<br clear="all">
<div><div><br>...Skeeve</div><div><br></div><div><div><b style="font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">Skeeve Stevens - </b><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">eintellego Networks Pty Ltd</span></div><div><div>
<span style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px"><a href="mailto:skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</a> ; <a href="http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/" target="_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a></span><font><p style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">
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</font></div><div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(127,0,127)"><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">Juniper - Cisco </span><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">- Cloud</span></div>
</div></div></div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 7:58 PM, Nathan Brookfield <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Nathan.Brookfield@simtronic.com.au" target="_blank">Nathan.Brookfield@simtronic.com.au</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Plus this way people can financially benefit by circumstance and turn am extremely large profit from space in some cases which is historic and not costing the owner a cent.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The big guys get bigger while the smaller guys get spanked because they missed out on a resource which some people had the impression was never ending and were handed out IP space like it was candy at a rave.</div>
<div><br>
Nathan Brookfield
<div>Chief Executive Officer</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Simtronic Technologies Pty Ltd</div>
<div><a href="http://www.simtronic.com.au" target="_blank">http://www.simtronic.com.au</a></div>
</div>
<div><br>
On 03/03/2013, at 19:54, "Skeeve Stevens" <<a href="mailto:skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>That is an entirely different discussion. Right now, it makes its way back to IANA.. doesn't stay with APNIC. And there is no present policies for it to get back to the RIR's.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Even if it did, it would disappear in the blink of an eye.<br clear="all">
<div>
<div><br>
...Skeeve</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><b style="font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">Skeeve Stevens - </b><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">eintellego Networks Pty Ltd</span></div>
<div>
<div><span style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px"><a href="mailto:skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</a> ; <a href="http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/" target="_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a></span><font>
<p style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; <a>skype://skeeve</a></p>
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</font></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(127,0,127)"><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">Juniper - Cisco </span><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">- Cloud</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Jared Hirst <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:jared.hirst@serversaustralia.com.au" target="_blank">jared.hirst@serversaustralia.com.au</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Rather than selling the un-used space, wouldn’t the better thing to do is hand it back? Isn’t this the APNIC policy?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Skeeve Stevens<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 03, 2013 7:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mark Newton<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] IPv4</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yeah, I see your point... which is why I am in the same state of mind, being 'yeah whatever, get over it people'.</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">When ISOC was going all nuts over IPv6 Day and running around rar raring v6, I couldn't care less to be honest. My view is that ipv6 is inevitable and we just simply have to wait for those laggerts to see the error of their ways by not
doing it sooner.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">v4 is around $16ish per IP on transactions I've seen lately... but that is only for larger blocks of /20+. But I do expect that it will rise $2-5 per IP per year by the end of this year, maybe $7 next year and it will go stupid after that.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Right now there are people with excess space, like me with the /20 I sold recently... but pretty soon most space not actively being used will start to run out... and the prices could do anything. I even see business acquisitions happening
based on address space stock... maybe next year.<br clear="all">
</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
...Skeeve</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Skeeve Stevens - </span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">eintellego Networks Pty Ltd</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</a> ; <a href="http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/" target="_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; <a>skype://skeeve</a></span></p>
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<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in"><~WRD202.jpg></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#7f007f">The Experts Who The Experts Call</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060">Juniper - Cisco - Cloud</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#7f007f"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 7:33 PM, Mark Newton <<a href="mailto:newton@atdot.dotat.org" target="_blank">newton@atdot.dotat.org</a>> wrote:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On 03/03/2013, at 18:14, Skeeve Stevens <<a href="mailto:skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com</a>> wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Was v4 allocations screwed? I don't know. We didn't know what was going to happen 20 years ago...</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yeah we did. That's why we implemented CIDR in the early 1990s and got cracking on IPng.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Any suggestion that what's happening right now wasn't both foreseeable
<i>and actually foreseen</i> 20 years ago is pretty revisionist!</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I think that's why some of us are pretty relaxed about what's happening with IPv4 at the moment: we've all had a lot of time to come to grips with it, we've all made our predictions about how it'd play out, we all knew what'd happen if
the industry didn't do anything about it. They didn't do anything about it, and now it's all coming true. It's not some kind of surprise that everyone is supposed to panic about, though.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Things will get a lot worse before they get better: CGNs have barely even begun to be deployed yet, and there'll be a whole mountain of pain, anguish and teeth gnashing coming from them when they're commonplace.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Meanwhile everyone keeps arguing about the last /8 as if it's important or something; in a world where you can get all the IPv4 address space you want by simply spending money on buying it. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The price is currently low. Supply and demand will make the cost of acquiring IPv4 inexorably rise until it exceeds the cost of switching to IPv6, at which point demand will start to fall off, and a new equilibrium will be met. The price
over time will look like a bell curve with a long tail, and we're juuuuust starting to climb the left hand side...</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888"> - mark</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888"> </span></p>
</div>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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