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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Skeeve, yes I will wear the engineer badge with pride – thank you. But as to forward thinking that was why I pointing out the next
phase of IPvX needs to look to compatibility for rapid adoption . As I said I liked your idea and see merits in that approached. But again I want us all to learn from past history.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Take the GEO location, yes I said I can see problems, but thinking the right way we can indeed work out a solution, this is why I
raised it, so smarter people then me can think about it and solve it (happy to help in any way I can).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The other problem is IPv6 may be too far deployed to be raising the mobile IP concept and adjusting the existing allocation.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I do agree that today’s tech will not be up to the task and a rethink is required (new routing protocol/s) but this is a great discussion
for IPvX – forward thinking once more.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The networking industry is focus on SDN and Openflow at this time, maybe once that is sorted the next version of IP (or even a totally
new yet backwards transport can be looked at)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">+1 for SMTP change – well overdue yet I have no answers here on how to fix that one. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> Skeeve Stevens [mailto:skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 3 March 2013 9:19 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Michael Andreas Schipp<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Paul Wallace; ausnog@lists.ausnog.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] IPv6<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Michael,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">With all respect, you are a typical engineer (I've heard a good one), but you are only thinking about today and known quantities.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Think about tomorrow. My idea wouldn't work with todays technology. But if you look at a future... perhaps the next version of BGP or its replacement, and technologies where you could update your dynamic location. It could be used for
all sorts of purposes, such as emergency+voip, and so on.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Think how far we've come in 10 years... think what we will be doing in 5 years or 10. I see different protocols facilitating all these issues.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">First it starts with an idea... and ideal... then we need to figure out how to make it happen. The problem with the internet is that there are so many different (and valid) opinions as we're all coming from different perspectives and beliefs.....
I think it's going to be a long battle to get the great minds of this Internet to agree on something we all will adopt.... but it is possible.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">For example... SMTP NEEDS to change... in some way to deal with all this spam and crap... but getting people to agree just on how that should be has been a battle going on for years... and there is no end in sight.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Think of tomorrow, dream it up, write RFC's... get the support of vendors and amazing engnineers, the IEEE, IETF, etc.. and things will happen... just in a long time.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
...Skeeve<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Skeeve Stevens - </span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">eintellego Networks Pty Ltd</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</a> ; <a href="http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/" target="_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks" target="_blank">facebook.com/eintellegonetworks</a> ; <a href="http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve" target="_blank">linkedin.com/in/skeeve</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="http://twitter.com/networkceoau" target="_blank">twitter.com/networkceoau</a> ; blog: <a href="http://www.network-ceo.net/" target="_blank">www.network-ceo.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><img border="0" id="_x0000_i1025" src="http://eintellegonetworks.com/logos/ein09.png"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#7F007F">The Experts Who The Experts Call</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060">Juniper - Cisco - Cloud</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#7F007F"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 8:14 PM, Michael Andreas Schipp <<a href="mailto:MSchipp@a10networks.com" target="_blank">MSchipp@a10networks.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Skeeve, I like this idea but I see a possible problem. You will break GEO location unless you go
down that same path as breaking the main address space by country first – this can lead to waste (or do it multiple time to get a DB of GEO based address ranges every x time to divide it).
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Yes I know the range is HUGE for IPv6 but… thinking now save pain later. Maybe unlike v4 to v6 next
time we to vX we will make it backwards compatible…. As this is the sticking point for IPv6 – there is no native IPv4 to IPv6 or vice versa thus we have DS Lite, 6RD, Map-E/T and many others.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a name="13d2f8793ca80912__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Skeeve Stevens<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 3 March 2013 7:23 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Wallace<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] IPv4</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I don't agree. DNS serves a different function entirely.<br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
...Skeeve<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Skeeve Stevens - </span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">eintellego Networks
Pty Ltd</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</a> ; <a href="http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/" target="_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks" target="_blank">facebook.com/eintellegonetworks</a> ; <a href="http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve" target="_blank">linkedin.com/in/skeeve</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="http://twitter.com/networkceoau" target="_blank">twitter.com/networkceoau</a> ; blog: <a href="http://www.network-ceo.net/" target="_blank">www.network-ceo.net</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#7F007F">The Experts Who The Experts Call</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060">Juniper - Cisco - Cloud</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Paul Wallace <<a href="mailto:paul.wallace@mtgi.com.au" target="_blank">paul.wallace@mtgi.com.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">That's what DNS is for Skeeve.<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone powered by Polyfone Telecom<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On 03/03/2013, at 6:03 PM, "Skeeve Stevens" <<a href="mailto:skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve+ausnog@eintellegonetworks.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I read this when it came out. While I understand exactly what Jeff is saying, I personally don't agree with his approach. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I personally would like to see something else happen.... and I know this is far out, but here goes.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I'd like to see individuals to be able to get a /48 themselves... for it to be 'theirs' that they can take to ANY ISP they like (or more than one) and get announced. They could
keep it for life in theory.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I see that it could be like a cell/mobile number... port it, move it around, use it on your cell phone or anything you like... imaging wandering into a cell store and saying 'use
this /64 please for my handset'.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">There is enough /48's to do that for the entire planet, squillions of times over.... so why not? Well, obviously BGP technology would have to change just a little bit ;-) But
I am sure it could be done.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">THEN, ISPs wouldn't even need that much space themselves if every business and individual had their own space for all their own devices ;-)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">BOOM! Mind blown.<br clear="all">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
...Skeeve<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Skeeve Stevens - </span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">eintellego Networks
Pty Ltd</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</a> ; <a href="http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/" target="_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks" target="_blank">facebook.com/eintellegonetworks</a> ; <a href="http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve" target="_blank">linkedin.com/in/skeeve</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="http://twitter.com/networkceoau" target="_blank">twitter.com/networkceoau</a> ; blog: <a href="http://www.network-ceo.net/" target="_blank">www.network-ceo.net</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#7F007F">The Experts Who The Experts Call</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060">Juniper - Cisco - Cloud</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Paul Gear <<a href="mailto:ausnog@libertysys.com.au" target="_blank">ausnog@libertysys.com.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On 03/03/2013 05:30 PM, Skeeve Stevens wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Correct.
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">A /22 of IPv4 is equal to a /32 IPv6. So you get up to a /32 of v6 for no extra fee.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">BUT... If you are a business, expect only a /48... If you are a Service Provider, you can probably justify a /32.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">but seriously... a /48 is a TONNE for a business. The only reason you'd want more is if you have multiple networks in geographic disparate locations with different upstreams.<br>
...<o:p></o:p></p>
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Jeff Doyle begged to differ on this a little while back:<br>
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<a href="http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/logic-bad-ipv6-address-management" target="_blank">http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/logic-bad-ipv6-address-management</a><br>
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TL;DR version:<o:p></o:p></p>
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Businesses: allocate a /48 for every building, no matter how small.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
ISPs: allocate a /48 for every residential customer.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
Consistency is much more important than waste management.<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="color:#888888">Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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