<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>If those sites mentioned shut down IPv4 overnight, wouldn't all ISP's with v4-only customers just put in some kind of quick/dodgy 4-to-6 NAT/proxy thing so that their screaming customers could access "the Internet" again ? </span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br><span></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>It's a nice thought, but I can't see it really increasing the rollout of v6 by much. It might get people's
attention for a bit, and attract the ire of SP's, but after that ? <br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>If it was well publicised with a rational timetable to go along with (ie. 12 months ?) and everyone knew they had a deadline to at least dual-stack to retain access to these "vital" components of the Internet then it might have some useful benefit ?<br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;
background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div><br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Joshua D'Alton <joshua@railgun.com.au><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> "AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog@lists.ausnog.net> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, 25 January 2013 10:32 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [AusNOG] /16 for sale.... well not really but why not!<br> </font> </div> <br><meta http-equiv="x-dns-prefetch-control" content="off"><div id="yiv2019663676">No but sites
listed are representitive of people who would think the net is borked.<br><br><div class="yiv2019663676gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Michael Andreas Schipp <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:MSchipp@a10networks.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:MSchipp@a10networks.com">MSchipp@a10networks.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="yiv2019663676gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
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<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;">Sites listed was not based on traffic load but how many people would think the internet was broken and demand a fix
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d;">J</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;"><u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"><a href="" rel="nofollow" name="13c71aa35ff0d781__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;"><u></u> <u></u></span></a></div>
<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;" lang="EN-US"> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a> [mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joshua D'Alton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 25 January 2013 11:19 PM</span></div><div><div class="yiv2019663676h5"><br>
<b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] /16 for sale.... well not really but why not!<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div class="yiv2019663676h5">
<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></div>
<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">No but that is a great example. They are about 5% of the worlds traffic, and give or take they could survive with a tiny amount of IP space, probably not even a /22.<u></u><u></u></div>
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<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal">On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Michael Andreas Schipp <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:MSchipp@a10networks.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:MSchipp@a10networks.com">MSchipp@a10networks.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></div>
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<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;">Simple – have Facebook, Twitter and iTunes turn off IPv4 access.</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"><a href="" rel="nofollow" name="13c71aa35ff0d781_13c71a49cbc6c515__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></div>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;">
<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;" lang="EN-US">
<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a> [mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Zone Networks - Joel<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 25 January 2013 11:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Joshua D'Alton'; '<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a>'</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] /16 for sale.... well not really but why not!<u></u><u></u></div>
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<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></div>
<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;">+1</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;"> </span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;">I think it’s time for a y2k style “bug” in the ipv4 system..:P,
</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;"> </span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;">DoomsDays Alert - change to ipv6 by 01/02/2013 else you will be OFFLINE aka no internet !!
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d;">J</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;"> </span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;"> </span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;"> </span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;" lang="EN-US">
<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a> [<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joshua D'Alton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 25 January 2013 10:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] /16 for sale.... well not really but why not!</span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></div>
<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">I'm suggesting IPv6 *is* something you move to, but only if the top 100AS move to it all at once. I agree with the rest of what you say, and agree that unless the majority of the world
shifts to v6 over night, the problems you alliterate to will exist, but that is what I suggest is a solution.<u></u><u></u></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal">On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:20 PM, Paul Brooks <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:pbrooks-ausnog@layer10.com.au" target="_blank" href="mailto:pbrooks-ausnog@layer10.com.au">pbrooks-ausnog@layer10.com.au</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></div>
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<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal">On 25/01/2013 5:15 PM, Joshua D'Alton wrote:<u></u><u></u></div>
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<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></div>
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<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></div>
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<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal">Forcing all the small providers who can't get enough space to move to v6, as you talk about Skeeve, won't fix the problem anywhere near as fast as doing it the other way around.
It is true that it is band-aid if the smaller pockets of v4 left are simply re-allocated, but what isn't a bandaid is re-allocating the massive IP space. Imagine moving Telstra off v4, suddenly we'd have more than enough IPv4 space for the smaller providers
in Australia, for whom rolling out v6 will cost far more as a percentage than it would Telstra.<u></u><u></u></div>
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</blockquote>
<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></div>
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<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">The trouble with this and many of the other posts in this thread is an implicit assumption that IPv6 is something that you *move to* - and then once you have moved to IPv6 you don't need
IPv4 space any more. <br>
IPv6 is something you *add*, not move to. You need to add IPv6, so your customers can communicate as much as possible with the new Internet. You still need to keep serving out your IPv4 addresses, so your customers can keep communicating with the 'old Internet'
hold-outs that haven't also added IPv6 to their system. The IPv4 proportion of total traffic should drop over time - but each ISP will still need to be handing out IPv4 in parallel with IPv6 for probably decades to come.<br>
<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></div>
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<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></div>
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<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal">On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 5:07 PM, Skeeve Stevens <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:skeeve+ausnog@eintellego.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:skeeve+ausnog@eintellego.net">skeeve+ausnog@eintellego.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></div>
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<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">
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<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></div>
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<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal">There are short term solutions already:<u></u><u></u></div>
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<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></div>
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<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal">- Get your final /22<u></u><u></u></div>
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<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal">- New companies can get a /22<u></u><u></u></div>
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<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal">- You buy some IPv4 of the open market<u></u><u></u></div>
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<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal">- You invest in CGN/LSN to extend the life of your v4 (not an 'alternative' that some stupid journalists suggested in the last week)<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
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<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal">- You roll-out IPv6/Dual-Stack/etc faster and start shifting those you can<u></u><u></u></div>
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<div class="yiv2019663676MsoNormal"><br>
For a brand spanking new ISP, try getting by with a /22. Even deploying IPv6 from Day 0, buying IPv4 space on the open market is the only way forward for a new market entrant, as IPv6-only isn't viable yet.<span style="color:#888888;"><br>
<br>
Paul.</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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