Given I replied to you originally thinking you were replying privately vs the list, I think it is obvious that the human element is really key, not things like CCTV ;P<div><br></div><div>Anyway, I'm sure CCTV is essential for things like PCI, to meet the BS red tape, but with regards to the OP post generally, so far we've only heard political/red-tape reasons.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Very interested if you actually have an instance where "It's definitely not a waste of resources, given the number of people who typically come and go in a commercial data centre and the requirement for access to be controlled and monitored", because I've certainly not come across anything public :/<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 10:27 PM, Chris Ricks <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chrisr@securepay.com.au" target="_blank">chrisr@securepay.com.au</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>It's not a stretch at all, and CCTV by
itself doesn't prevent anything obviously.<br>
<br>
It's definitely not a waste of resources, given the number of
people who typically come and go in a commercial data centre and
the requirement for access to be controlled and monitored. <br>
<br>
In the case of PCI DSS, many people don't understand that the "D"
stands for Data, not Digital. For example, Iron Mountain are
compliant but do not store any cardholder data in digital form. In
their case, proving physical security is a requirement and being
able to show that procedures are followed over time is very easily
done with appropriate CCTV coverage.<br>
<br>
As someone who is intimately involved with PCI DSS compliance
issues, I can confirm that cameras functioning do a lot for myself
and my team without deterrence being one of the benefits.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Chris<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
On 2/12/2012 9:49 PM, Joshua D'Alton wrote:<br>
</div></div></div>
<blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="h5">Sure, but the real stretch is them thinking that CCTV
should be part of the requirements.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm not sure no properly compliant org has suffered a breach,
PCI DSS is not all encompassing as various cons like DEFCON and
Blackhat have shown, but what I am sure of is that there'll
never be a breach that CCTV will prevent. Hence, it is really
probably a waste of resources.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Having fake CCTV will meet any small level of deterrence
anyway, whether they function or not will not help anyone
except bureaucrats.. <br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 7:33 PM, Chris
Ricks <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chris.ricks@securepay.com.au" target="_blank">chris.ricks@securepay.com.au</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">That's a
slight stretch, mentioning PCI DSS requirements in the same
context as the Romanian ring.<br>
<br>
The victims involved were not at all compliant. To date, no
properly compliant organisation has suffered a breach.
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
Joshua D'Alton <<a href="mailto:joshua@railgun.com.au" target="_blank">joshua@railgun.com.au</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Its a bit like airport security; you have to have it so
it looks like you are secure, but in reality anyone
wanting to do something malicious will firstly be able
to still do it, and secondly probably get away with it.
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>Looking at PCI DSS, while the costs for CCTV are
fairly insignificant, it is as laughable when compared
to the tens of billions lost as it is the number of
hijackings prevented.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The $30 million stolen recently in Australia by a
Romanian ring who had 0 physical access to Australia
let alone a rack in a DC is a fairly poignant example.<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 7:15
PM, Chris Ricks <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chris.ricks@securepay.com.au" target="_blank">chris.ricks@securepay.com.au</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
CCTV is a requirement for us, given requirement 9
of PCI DSS. <br>
<br>
In one of our locations, we have cameras in our
rack and in another we have cameras in our cage
facing inwards.
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
Matt Perkins <<a href="mailto:matt@spectrum.com.au" target="_blank">matt@spectrum.com.au</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<div><font face="Arial"><span><br>
a) Is CCTV (recording) a necessity
within a data centre? <br>
<br>
It's a requirement of our insurance
company so yes.<br>
<br>
b) Would you feel it's appropriate if a
data center provider didn't have CCTV as
part of their service provision and soly
relied on physical access logs for
physical security auditing? <br>
<br>
No there is no due diligence, No there
is no backup. That is a physical log is
one form of security but it has no
backup cctv provides a backup. <br>
<br>
c) Would you state that CCTV is simply
implied as a standard inclusion when it
comes to the provision of data centre
services? <br>
<br>
Nothing is implied or standard. Most
customers worth their salt will send you
the normal security DD questionnaire. <br>
<br>
Matt.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font>On 2/12/12 12:38 PM, Chris
Macko wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"> </div>
<div> </div>
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<p><font face="Arial">Hi<span>
Matt,<br>
<br>
Thanks for
your feedback,
if you have
the time, I'd
really
appreciate if
you could
provide your
responses to
the initial
questions. I
would like to
review the
industry
belief, whilst
I have my own
experiences
and beliefs,
my own
feelings are
insufficient
to solely use
in my case
study and thus
it is
necessary for
me to consider
the broad
industry
responses and
beliefs. <br>
<br>
Rather than
just taking
the queries to
my direct
colleagues
(who may be
inclined to
think the way
I do, given
that birds of
a feather
flock
together), I'm
being thorough
and taking
onboard the
comments from
the complete
industry. <br>
<br>
Regarding
logo, this is
just an email
signature, we
started off as
a design
agency so
aesthetic
design is
important to
us. I've
removed our
logo for you
on this
response.</span></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial">Kind
Regards,</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial"><b>Chris</b>
Macko<br>
<strong><font>Managing
Director</font></strong><br>
<font color="#0066cc" size="1"><b><span>Interhost
Pacific</span></b><span>
Pty Ltd t/a
Intervolve</span></font><span><font color="#cccccc" size="1"><font color="#999999"> </font></font></span></font></p>
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<br style="CLEAR:both">
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<br>
<div dir="ltr" align="left" lang="en-us">
<hr> <font face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>
[<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Matt Perkins<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 2 December 2012
11:51 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] [SPAM] Re:
Is CCTV a Necessity in a Data Centre?<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>Skeeve,<br>
I saw a system once that took stills out
of the rack when a reed on the door was
triggered. So simply taking a record of
people who opened the door so it could be
perhaps more innocent. Im not sure a
camera looking out of the rack would be
that useful and sure people may be upset
about there privacy. We have a no
camera/photo in our center policy for
customers and our CCTV monitors the
general floor and ingress and egress
points. It would be only scrutinized in
the event of some sort of security breach
any way. To the broader issue of cctv.
Well it's so cheap who would not put it
in. Compared to the other facility costs.
UPS/GEN Fire etc etc. <br>
<br>
It's a strange question Chris could you
give us some background to why ask? You
cant help but notice a big logo at the
start of your email.... <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
2/12/12 11:59 AM, Skeeve Stevens wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> Chris,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think CCTV is important... but you
have to ask a more Micro questions...
where?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ingress/Egress, definitely. Every
rack? I don't think so. As long as you
can verify who went in and out, and
where they went... i.e. which room, then
you are fine.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>No one wants to be constantly watched
as they do their job, and let's be
honest here... video of an engineer
sitting on the floor typing on a laptop,
or inside a rack playing with things,
isn't exactly going to give you much
information about what they are doing,
and anything it does, is unlikely to be
in context.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I've seen people even have cameras in
their rack looking out... never sure
what that was for. I used to have one
in a rack opposite where I used to
regularly work in Global Switch, so I
just stuck a bit of paper over it. No
idea whose it was, but they didn't have
a right to film me doing my work. It is
also illegal since they don't have a
sign saying they are doing it, and I am
sure they don't have a
covert surveillance warrant.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Reference: <a href="http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fullhtml/inforce/act+47+2005+FIRST+0+N" target="_blank">http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fullhtml/inforce/act+47+2005+FIRST+0+N</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When it comes to DC's, I am not sure
what defines a workplace however... and
surveillance when people have cameras
inside their racks looking out, may be
illegal.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Essentially, if you can't trust the
DC's security, you probably shouldn't be
using that DC.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Who went where, most importantly,
when, is all you need.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...Skeeve<br>
<div>
<div><font face="Calibri"><b><br>
<br>
</b></font></div>
<div><b style="FONT-SIZE:13px;FONT-FAMILY:Calibri">Skeeve
Stevens, CEO - </b><span style="FONT-SIZE:13px;FONT-FAMILY:Calibri">eintellego
Pty Ltd</span></div>
<div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="FONT-SIZE:13px;FONT-FAMILY:Calibri"><a href="mailto:skeeve@eintellego.net" target="_blank">skeeve@eintellego.net</a> ; <a href="http://www.eintellego.net/" target="_blank">www.eintellego.net</a></span><span style="FONT-SIZE:13px;COLOR:rgb(127,0,127)"><font style="COLOR:rgb(0,0,0)" color="#002060">
<p style="MARGIN:0px;FONT-FAMILY:Calibri">Phone:
1300 753 383; Cell <a href="tel:%2B61%20%280%29414%20753%20383" value="+61414753383" target="_blank">+61 (0)414
753 383</a> ; <a>skype://skeeve</a></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px;FONT-FAMILY:Calibri"><a href="http://facebook.com/eintellego" target="_blank">facebook.com/eintellego</a> ; <a href="http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve" target="_blank">linkedin.com/in/skeeve</a> </p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px;FONT-FAMILY:Calibri"><a href="http://twitter.com/networkceoau" target="_blank">twitter.com/networkceoau</a> ;
blog: <a href="http://www.network-ceo.net/" target="_blank">www.network-ceo.net</a></p>
</font></span></div>
</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec
2, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Chris Macko <span dir="ltr"> <<a href="mailto:cmacko@intervolve.com.au" target="_blank">cmacko@intervolve.com.au</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid">
<div>
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<p><font face="Arial">Hi<span>
All,<br>
<br>
I'm performing
a small case
study and
would really
appreciate if
you're able to
provide your
feedback in
relation to
the following
questions
regarding CCTV
within a data
centre;<br>
<br>
a) Is CCTV
(recording) a
necessity
within a data
centre? <br>
b) Would you
feel it's
appropriate if
a data centre
provider
didn't have
CCTV as part
of their
service
provision and
soly relied on
physical
access logs
for physical
security
auditting? <br>
c) Would you
state that
CCTV is simply
implied as a
standard
inclusion when
it comes to
the provision
of data centre
services? <br>
<br>
My personal
experience is
that CCTV is
necessary
within data
centre
services in
order to
investigate
potential
physical
security
breaches in
events where
physical
access logs
don't provide
the necessary
information
being
investigated.
I also feel
that a data
centre without
CCTV would be
akin to a
human without
oxygen, in
that both
co-exist and
are
co-dependent.<br>
<br>
I would
however really
appreciate
your thoughts
and feedback.
Thank you! <br>
<br>
</span></font><font face="Arial">Kind
Regards,</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial"><b>Chris</b>
Macko<br>
<strong><font size="-0">Managing
Director</font></strong><br>
<font color="#0066cc" size="1"><b><span>Interhost
Pacific</span></b><span>
Pty Ltd t/a
Intervolve</span></font><span><font color="#cccccc" size="1"><font color="#999999"> </font></font></span></font></p>
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<td><font size="1" face="Arial"><font color="#999999" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Support Email</b></font></font></td>
<td><font size="1" face="Arial"><font color="#0066cc" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="mailto:support@intervolve.com.au" target="_blank"><font color="#0066cc">support@intervolve.com.au</font></a></font></font></td>
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<tr>
<td><font size="1" face="Arial"><font color="#999999" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Accounts Email</b></font></font></td>
<td><font size="1" face="Arial"><font color="#0066cc" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="mailto:accounts@intervolve.com.au" target="_blank"><font color="#0066cc">accounts@intervolve.com.au</font>
</a></font></font></td>
</tr>
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<td><font size="1"> </font></td>
<td><font size="1"> </font></td>
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<tr>
<td><font size="1" face="Arial"><font face="Arial,
Helvetica,
sans-serif"><font color="#999999"><b>Website</b></font></font></font></td>
<td><font size="1" face="Arial"><font face="Arial,
Helvetica,
sans-serif"><font color="#999999"><a href="http://www.intervolve.com.au/" target="_blank"><font color="#0066cc">www.<b>intervolve</b>.com.au</font></a></font></font></font></td>
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<td><font size="1"> </font></td>
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<td colspan="2" height="2"><font color="#999999" size="1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">This email
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recipient, you
must not use,
pass on or
copy this
message. We
also ask that
you notify the
sender by
email or
telephone and
destroy the
original
message. Thank
you.</font></td>
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<pre>_______________________________________________
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</div></div><p color="#000000" align="left">No virus
found in this message.<br>
Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a><br>
Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2634/5431 - Release Date:
12/01/12</p>
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