<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Verdana;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoPlainText, li.MsoPlainText, div.MsoPlainText
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:Consolas;}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black;}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.PlainTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Plain Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text";
font-family:Consolas;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="2050" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoPlainText>Morning all, I have a bit to add on this topic as general education but everyone has been pretty accurate so far.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>What is said below is correct, 5.4/5.8 will stretch 10’s of kilometres with the proper dishes, we have one going 40-50Kms in 5.4. Mike just spoke on that while I was typing.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>5.4/5.8Ghz is hardly effected by rain fading. 15/18/20/32/80Ghz are all very much effected by rain but this can be designed out with the proper fade margin. So is a laser link (laser is pretty much the same frequency as light so if you can see through a rain storm you can't get a laser through it). <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Ref: <a href="http://happy.emu.id.au/lab/rep/rep/9510/picspace/fig24.gif">http://happy.emu.id.au/lab/rep/rep/9510/picspace/fig24.gif</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Reflections off the water surface can be accommodated for and designed out, most programs like pathloss allow you to do ray tracing based on different tidal heights, fog layers etc. You can then do things like moving the dish out of the worst point of reflection (by blocking the path to the water) or using spatial/frequency diversity. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>If you are interested Aviat networks recently deployed the worlds longest over water microwave link. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><a href="http://blog.aviatnetworks.com/2011/05/04/the-worlds-longest-all-ip-microwave-link/">http://blog.aviatnetworks.com/2011/05/04/the-worlds-longest-all-ip-microwave-link/</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>For a serious 70Kms over water link would require a 7.5/8Ghz link with big dishes very high towers/mountains and spatial diversity but the license with the ACMA for that alone is $9000 a year. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>So you can try with the ubiquiti's, I would suggest getting a microwave engineer to design the link or at least learn to use something like radio mobile <a href="http://www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.html">http://www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.html</a> and design it yourself but again you will need big towers to get around the earth curvature at that distance. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#0065B0'>Scott Rowlandson</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#0065B0'>Senior Network Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=160 height=58 id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image002.gif@01CD29E8.6666D860"></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>T: 02 8399 7718 </span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#2DA527'>|</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'> M: 0434 317 153 </span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#2DA527'>|</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'> F: 02 9699 0077<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>A: 15-17 William Street, Alexandria NSW 2015<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>E: <a href="mailto:srowlandson@vertel.com.au">srowlandson@vertel.com.au</a> </span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#2DA527'>|</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'> W: <a href="http://www.vertel.com.au/"><span style='color:gray;text-decoration:none'>www.vertel.com.au</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#999999'>This email (including attachments) may contain privileged/confidential information. Any unauthorised use of the contents is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please immediately delete it (and any attachments) and telephone Vertel in Australia +61 1300 837 835.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net [mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mike Everest<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, 4 May 2012 11:05 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Alex Maclaren'; ausnog@lists.ausnog.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Bandwidth in Phillip Island<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Good morning Alex, all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Actually, my comments about exceeding limits was in response to the mention of nanostation product in the original post :-} I have seen way too many examples of people installing gear that has fixed antenna and then turning up the tx power to max to get ‘better speeds’ on the resulting links. The same goes for other vendor models, e.g. MikroTik, that it is easy to configure them to operate beyond the regulatory limits. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’m sorry if my comments were interpreted as meaning that 5GHz links can’t be used for longer distances – to the contrary: 5GHz is a great way to achieve good speeds over distance so long as it is used with care! :-)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>When transmitters with tx capability of 30dBm connected to 30dBi antennas, it is sometimes far too tempting to just ‘turn it up a bit’ ;-) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The article linked in that same post documented a 50Km link using 5.8GHz has EIRP at about 58 dB – that’s, what, about 250x our regulatory limit :-D<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I think that a discussion about power output limits is always relevant when talking about microwave data links :)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cheers!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Mike Everest.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Shop.duxtel.com.au<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> <a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a> [<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alex Maclaren<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, 4 May 2012 9:46 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Craig Askings'; <a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Bandwidth in Phillip Island<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I beg to differ of all this discussion about the EIRP limits in Australia meaning wireless link distances can only be 2-3km.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We have many links of over 15km operating at legal limits.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It is just a matter of having enough gain on your dishes.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>For instance, if you have two BulletM5 radios and 27dbi grid dishes, over 10km operating in the 5.4GHz range, your theoretical signal is -72dBm.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>This would be more than enough signal to achieve full modulation on the link.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#666699'>Alex Maclaren</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#666699'><br>Network Operations Analyst<br>Cirrus Communications Pty Ltd </span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#666699'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style='margin-left:36.0pt;border-collapse:collapse'><tr><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:red'>t|: <o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#666699'>1300 552 698<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td></tr><tr><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:red'>f|: <o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#666699'>1300 556 790<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td></tr><tr><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:red'>e|: <o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:alex.maclaren@cirruscomms.com.au">alex.maclaren@cirruscomms.com.au</a><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td></tr><tr><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:red'>w|: <o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.cirruscomms.com.au/" title="Cirrus Communications -
Connecting Regional Australia with Wireless Broadband, Network equipment
and IP Telephony">http://www.cirruscomms.com.au/</a><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=203 height=102 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image003.jpg@01CD29E8.6666D860" alt="New Signiture"></span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>This is an e-mail from Cirrus Communications Pty Ltd. It is confidential to the named addressee and may contain copyright and/or legally privileged information. No-one else may read, print, store, copy, forward or act in reliance on all or any of it or its attachments. If you receive this email in error, please telephone us on +61 2 4336 2000 or email <a href="mailto:info@cirruscomms.com.au">info@cirruscomms.com.au</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> <a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a> [<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Craig Askings<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 3 May 2012 9:07 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Bandwidth in Phillip Island<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>Don't expect more than a couple of kms at the class licence EIRP limits that have been set for Australia.<br><br>On 3/05/2012 9:03 PM, Martin Hepworth wrote: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt'>Uniquiti's AirFiber <a href="http://www.ubnt.com/airfiber">http://www.ubnt.com/airfiber</a> could be an option.<br><br clear=all>-- <br>Martin Hepworth<br>Oxford, UK<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>On 3 May 2012 09:31, Mike Everest <<a href="mailto:ausnog@duxtel.com" target="_blank">ausnog@duxtel.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt'>> Ubiquiti Nanostation/Bullets can easily get upto 15Kms without issues. TCO<br>> is in the hundreds.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>