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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bevan –<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Please allow me to remind readers of my comment:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#C00000'>The Telecommunications Act 1997 is a Federal Statute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#C00000'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#C00000'>The TIA is also a Federal Statute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#C00000'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#C00000'>Neither therefore have common involvement with the QPS.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#C00000'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#C00000'>.. & good luck gaining the Federal Police’s support unless the effect of the hack is of the type that might cause it to make it into the papers.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#C00000'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#C00000'>-Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In relation to your responses … in fact I am a tiny bit offended by some of them …<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>E.G. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>You say: “</span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>However, for reference if you actually read the legislation you will also note that it covers lawful interception scenarios by State law enforcement agencies and others. </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bevan, that’s utterly presumptuous & a tiny bit offensive … you cannot possibly have any knowledge whatsoever whether I’ve read none, some, or possibly 100% of this Act.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’d be most grateful if you could kindly withdraw this statement.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>You say: “</span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I have to say your suggested concept that Federal Legislation doesn't apply to state enforcement agencies is an interesting legal concept.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bevan, is a misrepresentation of what I said .. which is set out above & plainly incapable of being paraphrased in the way you’ve interpreted same.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’d be most grateful if you could kindly withdraw this statement.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>3.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>You say: “</span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I'm not going to go through this because (1) they have been discussed previously on Ausnog and (2) I'm not going to invest in education when people aren't prepared to read the relevant legislation to have an informed discussion.</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Well now … are you repeating your attcke on me (above), or alternatively suggesting that none of our Members have read the Act you refer to?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>(… and on behalf of any relative delegates, I didn’t know you lectured in Law & were therefore entitled to admonish students for not reading the Act you’d required them to read herein.)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>4.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Your say: “</span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Secondly, I did not say QPS is intercepting a telecommunications service. You assumed that and in your haste to put words in my mouth you assumed wrong. I was <b>very</b> clear to say there appears to be <b>some slight but material difference</b>s between this and the Street View incidents <b>on face value.</b><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Read the message above in red type Bevan … it doesn’t mention your name EVER and, on the basis that this is a ‘one to many’ forum, I suspect the calm independent Members will find this statement confusing!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>5.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>You say: “</span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Again they are your words not mine. I was pointing out that almost all the answers everyone are seeking are in the legislation.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If you’ve asked me what I meant by that statement, instead of alternatively attacking me, you’d have come to understand the very reasonable basis upon which what I said was proposed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So … are you going to ask me what I meant by that or alternately choose to just attack me further?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>You need to understand that there’s at least two discussions going on concurrently here … <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>1.) the article in relation to the QPS’s activities, and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>2.) general interest by people in pondering where the ‘line in the sand’ exists is in relation to connecting to all manner of wireless devices by all manner of people in all manner of situations, whether intentionally & criminally, accidentally, or accidentally in a way that the Authorities might fear represents criminal conduct.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Goodness knows that if, in the long run, this Forum’s Member’s are unable to form a consensus of opinion, and then constructively extend that opinion to the Authorities in a way that allows them to quickly move ahead via expert opinion, thereby leading to useful Policing, in relation to the TIA, The Tel Act 1997, or the various State Criminal Codes, then we’d not be doing our civic or moral duty would we? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>-Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Bevan Slattery [mailto:Bevan.Slattery@nextdc.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 23, 2012 7:32 PM<br><b>To:</b> Paul Wallace; James Troy; Joseph Saxton; Jarrod Hassell; ausnog@ausnog.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Police Wardriving. Where else but QLD!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Hi Paul,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: Paul Wallace <<a href="mailto:paul.wallace@mtgi.com.au">paul.wallace@mtgi.com.au</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>> The Telecommunications Act 1997 is a Federal Statute.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Yes that is correct.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>> The TIA is also a Federal Statute.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Yes that is correct.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>> Neither therefore have common involvement with the QPS.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Firstly, I didn't say there was. I was pointing out that people should read the legislation that is relevant rather than reference irrelevant bush law principles. However, for reference if you actually read the legislation you will also note that it covers lawful interception scenarios by State law enforcement agencies and others. By way of example here:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>6E Lawfully intercepted information<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>(2) <span style='color:red'>A reference in this Act to lawfully intercepted information</span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>that was originally obtained by an agency, or by an eligible</span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>authority of a State, is a reference to:</span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I have to say your suggested concept that Federal Legislation doesn't apply to state enforcement agencies is an interesting legal concept.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Secondly, I did not say QPS is intercepting a telecommunications service. You assumed that and in your haste to put words in my mouth you assumed wrong. I was <b>very</b> clear to say there appears to be <b>some slight but material difference</b>s between this and the Street View incidents <b>on face value.</b><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>So let's think about this. Under Street View G not only connected to a wifi access point, but they actually captured and stored packets not addressed to nor intended for them. Unintentional mistake. Interestingly, on an open personal wifi access point with no interconnect to the internet/telco service this in itself may not be an issue. However, the fact there are other network elements provided by a telco or that said wifi access points might have been run by a telco complicates matters. I'm not going to go through this because (1) they have been discussed previously on Ausnog and (2) I'm not going to invest in education when people aren't prepared to read the relevant legislation to have an informed discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Now <b>at face value</b> QPS are simply driving around seeing what networks are open/insecure, but not actually interfere with a communication, nor intercept one that they weren't the intended recipient. Depending on what they do and how far they push things will need to be tested against the legislation. Seeing what networks are open? No biggie. Connecting to networks and send/receive data within that network (non telco)? Probably getting slightly grey. Then sending data over a line/network element (ADSL link for e.g.)? Getting very murky. Intercepting and storing other people communications? Danger, Danger Will Robinson.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>> .. & good luck gaining the Federal Police’s support unless the effect of the hack is of the type that might cause it to make it into the papers.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Again they are your words not mine. I was pointing out that almost all the answers everyone are seeking are in the legislation.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>[b]<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br><br>The information contained in this email and any attachments may be confidential. This email and any attachments are also subject to copyright. No part of them may be reproduced, adapted or transmitted without the written permission of the copyright owner. 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