<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Matt,<div>The only provider that I'm aware of who does NOT localpref to prefer customers is Verizon (AS701) and this is historic. It's standard practise to prefer your direct customers by default. </div><div><br></div><div>MMC</div><div><br><div><div>On 24/02/2012, at 11:26 AM, Matt Perkins wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
I think the reason Telstra used the dodo path rather then it's
others is because of their well debated and arguably incorrect
policy to fiddle the localpref's to preference directly connected
customers . <br>
<br>
This goes back to the Geoff Huston days where Telstra have allways
perfered a route to any customer that is connected locally. I
Assume there original plan was to allays keep it on net if possible,
to make as much revenue from on net customers.<br>
<br>
There where many arguments of the time calming all sorts of
armageddon scenarios. Looks like some of us were right. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:4F46DC67.7040607@gmail.com" type="cite">
<blockquote cite="mid:A1C11E3A3F415349AAECADEB4E917F601DA1B5@cloud.PCS.local" type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"> <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Evan Weston<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 24 February 2012 10:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net">ausnog@ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] International link issue<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Nice
spin from Telstra. Blame the hardware vendor, blame the
customer but never admit that it was actually *<b>our
fault</b>* for not filtering properly.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:[mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net]">[mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net]</a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Will Tardy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 24 February 2012 10:30 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net">ausnog@ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] International link issue<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal">Telstra claims they had an
international link down:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.zdnet.com.au/telstra-hit-by-nationwide-data-outage-339332310.htm">http://www.zdnet.com.au/telstra-hit-by-nationwide-data-outage-339332310.htm</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">If that
happened at the same time as DODO incorrectly sending
Telstra the full BGP table, could that explain why Telstra
black-holed all-routes plus pumped all of it's own traffic
via dodo?<o:p></o:p></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal">On 24 February 2012 10:02, Wade
Millican <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Wade.Millican@echoent.com.au">Wade.Millican@echoent.com.au</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Hi
All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">What
I'm yet to understand about this outage is why
DODO's AS_PATH was seen as shorter than anything
Telstra already had.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">An
earlier posted look at routes(below), thanks
Gavin, shows all routes from Telstra taking hops
to DODO, then Optus or PIPE before moving to the
destination. Surely Telstra would have had better
routes than pushing all traffic 2 hops out of it's
way.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">AS_PATH
does not explain how Telstra accepted these as the
active routes. Even if all routes were accepted,
Telstra still has better routes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Can
anyone explain what BGP Metric was modified/used
that pushed traffic over longer AS_PATHs? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre style="text-align:-webkit-auto;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>*> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://1.22.161.0/24" target="_blank">1.22.161.0/24</a> 165.228.157.73 100 80 0 1221 38285 7474 7473 55410 45528 i<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>*> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://1.22.162.0/24" target="_blank">1.22.162.0/24</a> 165.228.157.73 100 80 0 1221 38285 7474 7473 55410 45528 i<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>*> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://1.22.163.0/24" target="_blank">1.22.163.0/24</a> 165.228.157.73 100 80 0 1221 38285 7474 7473 55410 45528 i<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>*> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://1.22.167.0/24" target="_blank">1.22.167.0/24</a> 165.228.157.73 100 80 0 1221 38285 7474 7473 6453 4755 45528 i<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>*> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://1.22.168.0/24" target="_blank">1.22.168.0/24</a> 165.228.157.73 100 80 0 1221 38285 7474 7473 6453 4755 45528 i<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>..<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>* <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://14.201.64.0/24" target="_blank">14.201.64.0/24</a> 165.228.157.73 100 80 0 1221 38285 18398 7545 7545 i<o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Wade<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#959595">Wade
Millican <br>
Technical Consultant Team Lead<br>
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#989898">Hemisphere
Infrastructure Support<br>
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#959595">Information
Technology<br>
<b>Echo Entertainment Group Limited</b> <br>
<br>
2 Edward St<br>
Pyrmont NSW 2009 <br>
<br>
T: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B61%202%209657%207460" target="_blank">+61 2 9657 7460</a><br>
M: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B61%20%280%29%20400%20192%20485" target="_blank">+61 (0) 400 192 485</a><br>
</span><u><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:blue"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:wade.millican@echoent.com.au">wade.millican@echoent.com.au</a><br>
</span></u><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#959595"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.echoentertainment.com.au/" target="_blank">www.echoentertainment.com.au</a><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial
Narrow","sans-serif";color:#7F7F7F"><span><Mail Attachment.png></span></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">"Ramsay,
Paul" <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:pramsay@uecomm.com.au" target="_blank">pramsay@uecomm.com.au</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 22:20:41 -0800<br>
<b>To: </b>"<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@ausnog.net</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@ausnog.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [AusNOG] International link
issue<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Yes,
this reinforces the Rule of Trust. Don’t trust
your BGP peers and ensure your filters are in
place, configured correctly and working, you
can’t transfer blame.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It
can cost you big $$ and pain if you
inadvertently turn yourself into a transit
peer because your upstreams may prefer to send
traffic where they can make $$ from.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Sean K. Finn<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 23 February 2012
5:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:%27ausnog@ausnog.net" target="_blank">'ausnog@ausnog.net</a>'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] International
link issue</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">It’s easy to describe for all the
media types watching..</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">(And I’m not sure why its not
being put out there in Laymans terms).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">From the routes seen at various
points, and reported on the WAIX mailing list
earlier..</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Dodo told Telstra that Dodo was
the rest of the Internet.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Telstra Believed Dodo.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Telstra entire system tried to
use DODO as their ISP instead of everyone else
Telstra is connected to.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Needless to say this didn’t work,
the pipes got Jammed.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Telstra should have filtered the
announcement from Dodo, butdidn’t.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Filtering is in place as a form
of control (which is used instead of trust).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Filtering obviously wasn’t in
place, or didn’t work, so anything that Dodo
told Telstra about where to find the Internet,
Telstra believed.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">This happens quite often, I’ve
heard of this happening on peering exchanges
within Australia, too. Just never at an
organizational level as big as Telstra.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Over and Out.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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/* Matt Perkins
Direct 1300 137 379 Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd.
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