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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’ve seen Mr BGP, Geoff Huston lurks on these forums from time to time (I think he appeared a few day ago). Might be a good time to suggest his next monthly column on <a href="http://www.potaroo.net/">http://www.potaroo.net/</a> for March to cover ISP BGP peering design. Seems the list has some significant interest in how, where, why and best practices. I believe Geoff has written a few books on ISP’s over the many years and could share some valuable insights (and maybe some war stories too from his days at Telstra)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Food for thought.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net [mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Sean K. Finn<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, 24 February 2012 11:58 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Ausnog@ausnog.net'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] International link issue<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’ll be honest here and share an experience.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>(All beit an embarrassing one, but I’m willing to admit it, I’m sure there are many others on the list who have done it who may not admit it).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In my early days learning live BGP, (There is no testing with Internet BGP, it’s always live, all the time).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>There’s no putting your feet into the water to learn it, it’s head first sink or swim.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>When I turned on our second multi homed connection, and started taking full global routing tables, I had no AS path filtering in place, and no Prefix filtering in place. I didn’t even know what they were, really, back then.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I was advertising OPTUS’s entire global routing table to AAPT, and AAPT’s entire global routing table to OPTUS.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I was advertising every piece of private address space known to man (10.0.0.0/8, 192.168, 172, etc etc) into BOTH of them.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Did I know what was going on in the early days of BGP? Yes, I saw the advertisments, but, thankfully, AAPT and OPTUS had seen clients like me before (at that stage, without a clue). Did I know what effect it would have? Heck no.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Did everything work? Yes, perfectly and absolutely, because there were controls in place to prevent any issues.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thankfully, these days, I know better.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>ROUTE-MAP’s and AS-PATH filters and prefix lists and policy based routing, community based routing, come later, after you figure out how BGP works in the first place.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Fast forward to now.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We now perform at least one or two new BGP based interconnections per week, and unless *<b>we</b>* have our policies absolutely perfect, weird weird routing can and does occur.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I expect my downstreams to have no idea what AS path filtering or prefix filtering is about. I expect them to advertise 0.0.0.0/0 to me. (and some do </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> )<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Even then, even with appropriate route-filters and AS path filters in place, strangeness can occur.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’ve even seen a client’s network, that we were YET to physically connect to, but had setup AS path and Prefix list filtering internally and with our upstreams, bring traffic in through Optus, through our network, and out through AAPT to reach its final destination. This occurred because we’re a client of both Optus and AAPT and the route through us was seen as the shortest path. (Amazing, I know).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>This happened because we were learning their routes from AAPT, it was passing through our filtering, and then being re-advertised through to OPTUS.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>There’s no standard single way of setting up this filtering, either, every network is different.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In some networks, filters are done manually by the network ops technicians.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Other networks, its policy based, determining where to advertise routes to based on where the routes were learnt from.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In others, like the IX’s, there’s automated systems that generate policy and route-maps and prefix-lists based on what you punch into them, and push the configs out to the routers that matter at various intervals.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It’s so damn easy to make a mistake with any of these systems when bringing on a new peer (Transit peer, upstream peer, peer peer, or client peer).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Maybe a good topic for this year’s AusNOG, on different ways to do AS-Path-Filtering and Prefix-List Filtering.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Does anybody else care to share their experiences?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Burt Mascareigne <a href="mailto:[mailto:burt@prioritycomputer.com.au]">[mailto:burt@prioritycomputer.com.au]</a> <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 24, 2012 10:42 AM<br><b>To:</b> James Spenceley; Sean K. Finn<br><b>Cc:</b> 'ausnog@ausnog.net'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [AusNOG] International link issue<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>/Agree<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Now let’s get the jurnos to understand that and to pass that onto the public,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ready, Set, Go!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a> <a href="mailto:[mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net]">[mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>James Spenceley<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, 24 February 2012 11:39 AM<br><b>To:</b> Sean K. Finn<br><b>Cc:</b> 'ausnog@ausnog.net'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] International link issue<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Well said Sean.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>If anyone thinks this is Dodo's fault, think again. Customers make configuration errors like this regularly. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I understand Telstra's position in some cases, to prefix filter us is something like 2500 entires with lots of updates, that can be hard to maintain, *at a prefix level*<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Telstra not having a generic AS-PATH or even max-prefix put the fault entirely with Telstra. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 24/02/2012, at 11:29 AM, Sean K. Finn wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Telstra should have had an Inbound route filter in any case.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>(Both an AS Path filter, and a prefix-list filter).</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The amount of people I’ve seen TRYING to advertise 0.0.0.0/0 over an IX, or even leaking private address space into carrier links, is common place. Thankfully most carriers don’t trust their clients advertisments by default.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>PIPE IX have a fairly complex (but not complicated) portal to use to ensure that your AS PATH LIST and PREFIX LISTS are added to their server manually before adding them to their route filters.Even better, every day there’s a mailout with the filters that you can put on your OWN routers to match their routers, just-in-case.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’ve seen some providers be extremely strict on even the manual ranges that get added to portals, checking each and every IP assignment to ensure that I’m allowed to advertise the ranges, and AS’s, in question. (And in some cases making me jump through silly hurdles to PROVE it).</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The very definition of UPSTREAM means it’s their responsibility to not trust the DOWNSTREAM.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Fair enough, Dodo had to leak the routes, and Telstra had to accept them, there was a mutual mis-configuration, that part is self evident.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It’s easy enough to make the mistake.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>S</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;border-width:initial;border-color:initial'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:[mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net]">[mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net]</a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Aaron Swayn<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Friday, February 24, 2012 10:20 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net">ausnog@ausnog.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [AusNOG] International link issue</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I think the spin was from Dodo to blame the vendor, but me thinks the fault went down something like this…</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-18.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>-</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dodo engineer troubleshooting BGP advertisement issue</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-18.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>-</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Can’t figure it out (can’t see why, these things do work properly and you can debug them easily enough without having to take risks)</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-18.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>-</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Removed outbound route filter from BGP session to Telstra to see if that fixes the problem</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And we know the rest…</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;border-width:initial;border-color:initial'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:[mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net]">[mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net]</a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Evan Weston<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Friday, 24 February 2012 10:55 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net">ausnog@ausnog.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [AusNOG] International link issue</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Nice spin from Telstra. Blame the hardware vendor, blame the customer but never admit that it was actually *<b>our fault</b>* for not filtering properly.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:[mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net]">[mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net]</a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Will Tardy<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Friday, 24 February 2012 10:30 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net">ausnog@ausnog.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [AusNOG] International link issue</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Telstra claims they had an international link down:<span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.zdnet.com.au/telstra-hit-by-nationwide-data-outage-339332310.htm">http://www.zdnet.com.au/telstra-hit-by-nationwide-data-outage-339332310.htm</a><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>If that happened at the same time as DODO incorrectly sending Telstra the full BGP table, could that explain why Telstra black-holed all-routes plus pumped all of it's own traffic via dodo?<span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 24 February 2012 10:02, Wade Millican <<a href="mailto:Wade.Millican@echoent.com.au">Wade.Millican@echoent.com.au</a>> wrote:<span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Hi All,</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>What I'm yet to understand about this outage is why DODO's AS_PATH was seen as shorter than anything Telstra already had.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>An earlier posted look at routes(below), thanks Gavin, shows all routes from Telstra taking hops to DODO, then Optus or PIPE before moving to the destination. Surely Telstra would have had better routes than pushing all traffic 2 hops out of it's way.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>AS_PATH does not explain how Telstra accepted these as the active routes. Even if all routes were accepted, Telstra still has better routes.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Can anyone explain what BGP Metric was modified/used that pushed traffic over longer AS_PATHs? </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><pre style='text-align:-webkit-auto;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px'> <span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre>*> <a href="http://1.22.161.0/24" target="_blank">1.22.161.0/24</a> 165.228.157.73 100 80 0 1221 38285 7474 7473 55410 45528 i<span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre>*> <a href="http://1.22.162.0/24" target="_blank">1.22.162.0/24</a> 165.228.157.73 100 80 0 1221 38285 7474 7473 55410 45528 i<span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre>*> <a href="http://1.22.163.0/24" target="_blank">1.22.163.0/24</a> 165.228.157.73 100 80 0 1221 38285 7474 7473 55410 45528 i<span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre>*> <a href="http://1.22.167.0/24" target="_blank">1.22.167.0/24</a> 165.228.157.73 100 80 0 1221 38285 7474 7473 6453 4755 45528 i<span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre>*> <a href="http://1.22.168.0/24" target="_blank">1.22.168.0/24</a> 165.228.157.73 100 80 0 1221 38285 7474 7473 6453 4755 45528 i<span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre>..<span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre>* <a href="http://14.201.64.0/24" target="_blank">14.201.64.0/24</a> 165.228.157.73 100 80 0 1221 38285 18398 7545 7545 i<span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></pre></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Thanks,</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Wade</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>-- </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#959595'>Wade Millican <br>Technical Consultant Team Lead<br></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#989898'>Hemisphere Infrastructure Support<br></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#959595'>Information Technology<br><b>Echo Entertainment Group Limited</b> <br><br>2 Edward St<br>Pyrmont NSW 2009 <br><br>T:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="tel:%2B61%202%209657%207460" target="_blank">+61 2 9657 7460</a><br>M:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="tel:%2B61%20%280%29%20400%20192%20485" target="_blank">+61 (0) 400 192 485</a><br></span><u><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:blue'><a href="mailto:wade.millican@echoent.com.au">wade.millican@echoent.com.au</a><br></span></u><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#959595'><a href="http://www.echoentertainment.com.au" target="_blank">www.echoentertainment.com.au</a><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Narrow","sans-serif";color:#7F7F7F'><image001.png></span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;border-width:initial;border-color:initial'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>"Ramsay, Paul" <<a href="mailto:pramsay@uecomm.com.au" target="_blank">pramsay@uecomm.com.au</a>><br><b>Date:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 22:20:41 -0800<br><b>To:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>"<a href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@ausnog.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@ausnog.net</a>><br><b>Subject:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Re: [AusNOG] International link issue</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Yes, this reinforces the Rule of Trust. Don’t trust your BGP peers and ensure your filters are in place, configured correctly and working, you can’t transfer blame.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It can cost you big $$ and pain if you inadvertently turn yourself into a transit peer because your upstreams may prefer to send traffic where they can make $$ from.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;border-width:initial;border-color:initial'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>[<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Sean K. Finn<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Thursday, 23 February 2012 5:09 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:'ausnog@ausnog.net" target="_blank">'ausnog@ausnog.net</a>'<br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [AusNOG] International link issue</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It’s easy to describe for all the media types watching..</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>(And I’m not sure why its not being put out there in Laymans terms).</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>From the routes seen at various points, and reported on the WAIX mailing list earlier..</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dodo told Telstra that Dodo was the rest of the Internet.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Telstra Believed Dodo.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Telstra entire system tried to use DODO as their ISP instead of everyone else Telstra is connected to.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Needless to say this didn’t work, the pipes got Jammed.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Telstra should have filtered the announcement from Dodo, butdidn’t.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Filtering is in place as a form of control (which is used instead of trust).</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Filtering obviously wasn’t in place, or didn’t work, so anything that Dodo told Telstra about where to find the Internet, Telstra believed.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>This happens quite often, I’ve heard of this happening on peering exchanges within Australia, too. Just never at an organizational level as big as Telstra.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Over and Out.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:1.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;border-width:initial;border-color:initial'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information. 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