<html><head><base href="x-msg://58/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">simply put<div><br></div><div>line speed at the cost of incentive to use that line is a sad step 'forward'<div><br></div><div>--</div><div>James</div><div><br><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On 23/02/2011, at 4:07 PM, Bevan Slattery wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1"><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Matthew Moyle-Croft [mailto:mmc@internode.com.au]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, 23 February 2011 2:13 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Bevan Slattery<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Damien Morris;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">ausnog@ausnog.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [AusNOG] "Sewer broadband provider dumped" - Brisbane fibre plan scrapped</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "> </p><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">A few comments:</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "> </p></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">- Cost to access a customer is either $17/month for ULL or it's ~$30ish as you need LSS and wholesale line rental.</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></p><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Cost is $6.50 for Band 1 or $16.00 for band 2. Even if I took your price of $17 you are looking at a rate of $25 for copper limited bandwidth from home to PoP. Under a 1TB of data transferred (excluding IP) this would equate to $25-v-$85 (or worse case including a $10/Mbps backhaul charge $115)</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></p></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">- DF is only available to a subset of the exchanges of people covered by the NBN. So, you then need to start averaging the wholesale costs for the areas NOT covered.</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></p><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Firstly, I said that was to the majority of metro exchanges which is entirely accurate. Secondly the “subset” of metro is a majority or metro. By some research I did at PIPE 2 years ago we had DF to exchanges that covered over 6 million people. From recollection a further 50 (large) exchanges have been installed since then. Add to that that AMCOM, ESTA etc. in WA and SA I would expect DF to be available to almost 8 million people. If you read the AGM presentations by companies like iiNet and TPG you will note their “on-net” customer base is higher than their “off-net”. The vast majority of these are fed by dark fibre.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></p><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">You are worried about a tinkering of a $5/month delta on ULL (which I am happy to take an average approach including some Band 3 regionals) but don’t have an issue with the extra $60/month for NBN? Huh?</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></p></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">So, it's easy to create a bit of strawman about what the best-case is for this, but this doesn't represent the average cost.<span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></p><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">No strawman, just stating economic fact. Pushing out a NBN press release with a view to keeping the “headline” wholesale price down to $25/user based upon a user contention ratio of 1:250 on a 12Mb/s (average 48Kbps over a month) service is just amazing. That’s the same bandwidth as getting unlimited dial-up. Why didn’t they have a table showing costs under a variety of plans?</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></p><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">The silence on the NBN pricing is deafening. Here’s a little bit of irony. International bandwidth pricing without competition was around $300/Mbps 3 years ago. With competition it’s now $35/Mbps. Within the next 12 months it will be cheaper to get bandwidth from Iraq (Internet) to Sydney than from a the house next door to the PoI to the PoI. Sorry – that’s a bit extreme (but true). I should have said in 12 months it will be cheaper to get bandwidth (transit) from anywhere in the world to Sydney, than from anywhere in the PoI to the PoI.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></p><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Who’s clutching at straws?</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></p><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[b]</span></div></div></div><span style="font-size: 12px; ">The information contained in this email and any attachments may be confidential. This email and any attachments are also subject to copyright. No part of them may be reproduced, adapted or transmitted without the written permission of the copyright owner. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, interference with, disclosure or copying of this information is unauthorised and prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please immediately advise the sender by return email and delete the message from your system. All email communications to and from NEXTDC Limited are recorded for the purposes of archival and storage.</span>_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><br></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></body></html>