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<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(127, 0, 127); font-size: 16px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><div><div><div>Hey all,</div><div><br></div><div>Sorry for the lateness of the update. I'm here in Bangkok and I can only communicate with Australia for half the day due to timezones.</div><div><br></div><div>Yesterday at about 1pm (AEST), the routes belonging to Alumina that AINS were announcing ceased to be be so.</div><div><br></div><div>It is unclear to me whether AINS themselves stopped the announcements or whether Pacnet stopped them (or told them to stop) announcing the routes.</div><div><br></div><div>AINS (via Curtis Raams) still maintain that they had a right to announce the resources as a recourse to a billing dispute. They maintain that they had a contract which allowed them to do this, but when requested to produce this agreement by the AFP and by Alumina, they declined to do so, and said yesterday that they couldn't find it.</div><div><br></div><div>I am not saying that this agreement never existed as I have no knowledge either way, but if it never did exist, then the actions of AINS were, and the AFP agree, criminal in nature. There is ongoing legal action regarding this situation and when appropriate I will update the list due to that outcome if the results have anything interesting in them.</div><div><br></div><div>A few interesting things have come out of this situation that need to be addressed.</div><ol><li>The AFP seem to be powerless to deal with this kind of situation. They would like to be able to, but the Law Enforcement establishment moves way too slowly for the needs of situations such as these. Also, the AFP is limited in what they're able to actually do… They can seize equipment, but they're not engineers, so the options open to them are limited. There is clearly a need for the AFP to be able to act in domestic situations of DoS/DDoS/etc and other criminal situations.</li><li>The situation is extremely unclear on whether Pacnet is or should be liable for this situation as even after they were informed. Unlike AINS who claimed a legal contractual right to announce the routes, Pacnet in no way had that right to re-announce them. This specific situation is not targeted at Pacnet, who were just paralysed by this confusing situation, but to all upstreams who may contribute to the actions of their customers.</li><li>APNIC, while the issuing body for resources in this region, also seem powerless, apart from 'asking' politely of the perpetrator or upstream. In this situation APNIC did ask Pacnet to cease advertising the resources of Alumina, but Pacnet essentially refused to do anything. This is a situation that urgently needs addressing within the APNIC community and I will be consulting various parties as to the best way we can address this situation, especially since APNIC looks after the entire region, not just Australia.</li><li>I will be requesting that APNIC setup a section on their website to provide advice to LEAs in the region. Mainly explaining what a resource is, and what they mean, what announcements are, and who is entitled to announce them, including how to find out who owns them and what information they should rely on when someone like me requests someone to stop announcing a particular resource – as in, do I have the right.</li><li>We (the industry) need some legal advice (Hi lawyers on the list) as to whether the claimed recourse was actually legal or not. I think one of the appropriate industry bodies which have a code of conduct perhaps need to take up this pickle and provide some advice to ISPs or holders of resources and provide some advice.</li></ol><div>I am sure that the smart people on this list might be able to come up with some other areas that should be addressed.</div><div><div><div><br></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">...Skeeve<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 32, 96); "><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 32, 96); ">--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 32, 96); ">Skeeve Stevens, CEO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 32, 96); ">eintellego Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 32, 96); "><a href="mailto:skeeve@eintellego.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">skeeve@eintellego.net</a> / www.eintellego.net<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 32, 96); ">Phone: 1300 753 383, Fax: (+612) 8572 9954<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 32, 96); ">Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 / <a href="skype://skeeve" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">skype://skeeve</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 32, 96); ">www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve ; facebook.com/eintellego<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 32, 96); ">--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 32, 96); ">eintellego - The Experts that the Experts call<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 32, 96); ">- Juniper - HP Networking - Cisco - Brocade - Arista - Allied Telesis<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="color: rgb(0, 32, 96); "><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="font-size: 8pt; color: rgb(0, 32, 96); ">Disclaimer: Limits of Liability and Disclaimer: This message is for the named person's use only. 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