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<title>RE: [AusNOG] NBN Legislation</title>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>For starters, I will note that the NBN people
have not had its operations group active on this list and would have loved to
have seen that, I see that as a flaw (just like people keep on going on about
lack of ‘business case’), they have not been open, but I can also
see that as a result of the government taking control of an issue and the
people working for said NBN Co being at the whim of the government, that is part
of the cost of the government taking control of such an issue like this.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>There will be people who lose out due to
this, but think there would probably be more who would be worse off if they
didn’t and I’m probably a commie at heart </span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Wingdings><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The people who are setting this up are
basically now (although not in job description as they are employed by a ‘company’)
civil servants and their position largely dependant on not saying ‘something
stupid’ publically, much more so than the average company executive as
they are in the centre of a political issue that affects more people than the
average company, if they did get involved here they would likely be out of a
job quickly due to negativity of the entities here who are here that have more
power due to their personal net worth. (e.g. I expect this to have
substantially less weight due to being a ‘little person’ than the goliath
Bevan (no disrespect there, just trying to make a point and you spring to mind,
Hi!, think have met all of once in the elevator).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>You may hate me for this but I am for the
NBN, even if costs more than what would cost a commercial entity to do so as
think it will realise better results overall than what any commercial roll-out
would do, have been very surprised by their target percentage.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-bottom:double windowtext 2.25pt;
padding:0cm 0cm 1.0pt 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0cm'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have _<i><span
style='font-style:italic'>NO</span></i>_ confidence in the private sector (apart
from Telstra if it wasn’t split _<i><span style='font-style:italic'>but</span></i>_
it would be to the detriment to both other telcos and especially to consumers
and that is a whole other theoretical conversation) to achieve the speeds
desired or required later on in the residential space, from an email was
considering sending earlier:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Lets take for example my connection.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Moved in to current house I am renting around 2 or so years
ago, when moved in was unsure if could get ADSL1 until I had actually moved in,
had the phone connected and could apply. The only other viable option would
have been Telstra cable which I did not personally want to use.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-bottom:double windowtext 2.25pt;
padding:0cm 0cm 1.0pt 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0cm'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Then wanted to upgrade to ADSL2,
majority of providers are unable to provide it (no ports) and the ones that
could did not have a plan that suited me and only recently upgraded (1-2 months
ago), utilizing resources not available to the average end user to get what I
wanted, and when I did upgrade I had very little idea of what speed I would be
able to achieve (was pleasantly surprised to get 10mbit, was expecting
significantly lower).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I believe it _<i><span style='font-style:
italic'>should</span></i>_ already be better than this. At least with the NBN
you will know when moving to a location you will know if it is there or not and
that it will be rolled out at some point if not already.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>While I do not agree with some of what
they are doing (e.g. gpon, L2 (but that is just personal and can not currently
see how L3 deployment could work without NBN doing more than they will already
need to)), but that is the _<i><span style='font-style:italic'>cost</span></i>_
of government getting involved to rectify an issue.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>All I can see is that telco’s would
only keep rolling out DSL, particularly in established areas and attempting to
get the copper network to go faster and faster (vDSL) while masking the
underlying bit error rate as they try to deal with more and more cross-talk and
consumers being even more unaware of the service they could expect when
ordering.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Feel free to discuss this on-list,
off-list or at the pub (first Tuesday of month next Tuesday and will be at
P&W on Eagle, <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Brisbane</st1:City></st1:place>
with ‘crew’). I would very much like for someone to sit down with
me over a couple of drinks and discuss why (as an advantage to Australian
society) is better than what is occurring. I am sure I am likely missing some
major key facts and very willing to listen.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I would also like to put forward that we
start discussing ways to leverage what looks to be a given in ways that would be
an advantage of Australians and businesses, I do have a couple (and I do mean
two, not a rough couple) of ideas I would like to explore when the NBN
nears/reaches ‘critical mass’ and I would be surprised if no-one
else has thought of them (and explores with funding they have that I don’t).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Anyway, that’s my Tuesday rant to
someone </span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Wingdings><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Steve<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net [mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Curtis Bayne<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, 29 November 2010
12:27 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> John Edwards; vak<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> ausnog@ausnog.net<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [AusNOG] NBN
Legislation</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>We've already begun divesting our carriage-related
assets and ceased regional roll out in August, straight after the election.
>From what I've read, we're not the only provider to be doing so - the advice my
fellow management types are receiving from their advisers and boards are the
same as what we're getting: get out now.<br>
<br>
Banks refuse to give any money given the regulatory uncertainty. Any other
investment capital is only accessible at ridiculous interest because of the
increased risk. The NBN has rewarded the tyre-kicking, bottom-feeding resellers
who have contributed NOTHING to infrastructure in this country and punished
those who have risked significant amounts of capital to further telco
endeavors.<br>
<br>
For anyone considering investing in their own infrastructure in <st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Australia</st1:place></st1:country-region>, I
have one piece of advice for you:<br>
<br>
Bring lube.<br>
<br>
<br>
-C<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net on behalf of John Edwards<br>
Sent: Mon 11/29/2010 12:09 PM<br>
To: vak<br>
Cc: ausnog@ausnog.net<br>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NBN Legislation<br>
<br>
<br>
On 29/11/2010, at 9:45 AM, vak wrote:<br>
<br>
> Many people have claimed the stifling of innovation as a reason why we<br>
> should not have the NBN.<br>
><br>
> I would argue the exact opposite. The NBN will stimulate new ideas and<br>
> products. Those who generate new ideas today will be the winners in the<br>
> next decade - its an opportunity we must not sqander.<br>
<br>
<br>
History shows that on the ASX at least, the successful carriers in <st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Australia</st1:place></st1:country-region> are
those that have deployed their own infrastructure. This is generally considered
to be "innovating" by press releases, as it allows these carriers to
change the market they're in, and more importantly have a significant
competitive and technical advantage over resellers.<br>
<br>
With the NBN, this opportunity is no more. We're back to the dialup days where
the difference between services was marginal because everyone connected over
the same basic infrastructure.<br>
<br>
I'm not sure that this is a bad thing in most cases, but there are plenty of
opportunities for history to repeat itself. Some group of investors may decide
that it's a great idea to buy market share by selling an unlimited product
below cost (they will also be heralded as "innovative"), which is
going to upset the industry as customers flock to the better deal or expect
their provider to match it. This will happen right up until they inevitably go
bust - complete with a chorus of I-told-you-so's by pundits and debts to
wholesalers including the NBN. The new problem for industry with that scenario
is that this time around the government is involved and will need to be seen to
be "doing something".<br>
<br>
There's also the regional areas - it seems that this part of the legislation
penalises anyone who would dare to compete with the wireless or satellite parts
of the NBN by providing a city-equivalent service.<br>
<br>
I am not opposed to the NBN, but I am opposed to uncertainty that results in
people not getting broadband. Legislation that basically prevents anyone from
legally deploying an interim solution better have a really good reason attached
to it.<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
AusNOG mailing list<br>
AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net<br>
<a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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