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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Brent,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>For what its worth, we have had similar issues over the past 3 years or so.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Whilst we see even less TIO activity than Exetel we have had constant issues with the TIO operating outside its <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>charter, failing to investigate In a rational manner, leading the complainant and in extreme cases, failed to honour <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>their own prior decisions and recommendations.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>As a percentage, the error rate stands at around 60+ percent for us (these are those we have been able to prove<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And received credits from the TIO for) I would be keen to hear from other carriers who are seeing this kind of performance . <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We have had extensive discussion with them over the last three years and whilst this has resulted in credits, reversed<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Decisions etc, it has not resulted in any fundamental changes to their behaviour.. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Its good to see someone actually take this up with the TIO in this manner.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>My concern, apart from costing operators significant dollars, is that poor performance by the arbiter or last resort<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Only serves to harm the user experience (and their hip pocket) in the long run.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Anyone who would like to further this discussion with me feel free to contact me off list. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>A<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net [mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Brent Paddon<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 1 December 2010 12:27 PM<br><b>To:</b> Skeeve Stevens<br><b>Cc:</b> ausnog@ausnog.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Exetel Customer Announcement<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Good on them. The TIO does need to modify the way it achieves its outcomes. Too bad it seems it has to happen this way.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Brent<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:01 PM, Skeeve Stevens <<a href="mailto:Skeeve@eintellego.net">Skeeve@eintellego.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#002060'>I thought this would be interesting to the list.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#002060'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#002060'>Is this something that other ISP’s are also having issues with, and should the Comms Alliance, IIA, ISOC-AU or others be getting involved from a lobbying perspective?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#002060'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#002060'>...Skeeve</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#002060'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 1.0pt 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#002060'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#002060'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><h1>Exetel December 2010 Customer News Letter<o:p></o:p></h1><p><b>Exetel Suing The TIO?</b><o:p></o:p></p><p>Exetel has, after twelve months of legal 'discussions' filed a claim against the TIO in late November for wrongful charging and breaches of its constitution. <o:p></o:p></p><p>Why did we do this? <o:p></o:p></p><p>Firstly, it was not because Exetel gets a lot of complaints to the TIO - in fact Exetel is one of the very lowest 'transgressors' according to the TIO's own web site (our latest quarterly TIO bill was less than $900.00). <o:p></o:p></p><p>We did it because we, by 'force' not by our own desires, are a 'member' of the TIO and we object to being a member of a rogue organization that insists we pay to belong to it but dismisses our totally legitimate complaints about the way 'our organisation' operates without any consideration for the correctness of its day to day actions or for the efficacy of its own actions. <o:p></o:p></p><p>So for the whole time of our 'belonging' to the TIO we have raised specific objections to many different aspects of how the TIO conducts its daily affairs with the net result that we our legitimate concerns have been dismissed by 'clerks' who have difficulty in spelling 'ADSL' let alone understanding the first thing about how it works. <o:p></o:p></p><p>For practically the whole of 2010 to date our lawyers have been seeking a non court involving redress to overcharging and sensible processes to correct the current glaring errors in the current TIO procedures. Apart from monthly legal bills no other result has been achieved. <o:p></o:p></p><p>Our legal advisors, after almost 12 months of attempting to reach a sensible resolution from the TIO's legal personnel have now advised us that the only way of sensibly getting an answer from the TIO is to get a court to order them to do so. <o:p></o:p></p><p>Therefore we have begun that long and pointlessly expensive process. <o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 1.0pt 0cm'><p> <o:p></o:p></p><p><other customer news of no interest to AusNOG removed><o:p></o:p></p><p> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#002060'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#002060'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#002060'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#1F497D'>...Skeeve</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#002060'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#002060'>--</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#002060'>Skeeve Stevens, CEO</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#002060'>eintellego Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#002060'><a href="mailto:skeeve@eintellego.net" target="_blank">skeeve@eintellego.net</a> / <a href="http://www.eintellego.net" target="_blank">www.eintellego.net</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#002060'>Phone: 1300 753 383, Fax: (+612) 8572 9954</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#002060'>Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 / skype://skeeve</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#002060'><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve" target="_blank">www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve</a> ; <a href="http://facebook.com/eintellego" target="_blank">facebook.com/eintellego</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#002060'>--</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#002060'>eintellego - The Experts that the Experts call</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#002060'>- Juniper - HP Networking - Cisco - Brocade - Arista - Allied Telesis</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#002060'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:#002060'>Disclaimer: Limits of Liability and Disclaimer: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain sensitive and private proprietary or legally privileged information. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. eintellego Pty Ltd and each legal entity in the Tefilah Pty Ltd group of companies reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorised to state them to be the views of any such entity. Any reference to costs, fee quotations, contractual transactions and variations to contract terms is subject to separate confirmation in writing signed by an authorised representative of eintellego. Whilst all efforts are made to safeguard inbound and outbound e-mails, we cannot guarantee that attachments are virus-free or compatible with your systems and do not accept any liability in respect of viruses or computer problems experienced.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br clear=all><br>-- <br>--<br>Brent Paddon<br><br>Director | Over the Wire Pty Ltd <a href="mailto:brent.paddon@overthewire.com.au">brent.paddon@overthewire.com.au</a> | <a href="http://www.overthewire.com.au">www.overthewire.com.au</a><br>Phone: 07 3847 9292 | Fax: 07 3847 9696 | Mobile: 0400 2400 54<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>