<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I think the major flaw in the campaign that labour leads for the NBN is that it focuses on presenting project as a "faster" technology. It's all about speed, speed, and more speed and I don't think that this is acceptable. This is what I am seeing labour tell the average Australian with no experience in the industry. Labour should be pushing to show EVERYTHING that FTTx has to offer for now and into the future instead of sugarcoating the issue.<div><br></div><div>For a second there Jason I nearly disagreed with you - but after reading more closely I actually agree with you to some degree. Perhaps its not about deciding or trying to see what we will need in 10,20,40, or 100 years - and it's more about showing whats possible. Demonstrate, in full, what the NBN (among other technologies) has to offer instead of just leaking what labour wants the public to see or know about.</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>
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<p class="MsoAutoSig"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:black;mso-themecolor:text1">Andrew Oskam<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoAutoSig"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:black;mso-themecolor:text1">E <a href="mailto:percy@th3interw3bs.net">percy@th3interw3bs.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoAutoSig"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:grey;mso-themecolor:text1">NOTICE:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoAutoSig"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:grey;mso-themecolor:text1">These comments are my own personal opinions only and do not necessarily reflect the positions or opinions of my employer or their affiliates. All comments are based upon my current knowledge and my own personal experiences. You should conduct independent tests to verify the validity of any statements made in this email before basing any decisions upon those statements. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<br><div><div>On 17/08/2010, at 9:21 AM, Jason Sinclair wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div>Hi Mark,<br><br>I think the fundamental question that needs to be asked, which you have<br>touched on, is what does the population want? I think the issue that I<br>see being tossed around is what does the Industry think the landscape<br>should/could/will look like in x years, however the only real answer to<br>that is in the hands of those who acquire it.<br><br>Sure - there is a place for the Industry to lead these trends, and yes<br>Industry plays a crucial part in leading what is possible, however we<br>can't and shouldn't decide for the end-user what they must have.<br><br>Apple has done an outstanding job in marketing and leading people to<br>devices like the iPhone, iPad, etc and this has definitely been a<br>game-changer in how people use (and want) technology, however forcing<br>consumers down a fixed path is not in my mind the way to lead this.<br><br>I think we as an Industry need to lead the way in showing what is<br>possible and even with clever marketing influence people as to what they<br>may want, however at the end of the day "deciding" for the consumer is<br>not the right way.<br><br>Is "the NBN" necessary for our country and future generations -<br>definitely. Is the current proposed models the right way - the only<br>answer I have (and this will disappoint) is who knows. I don' think so<br>but again without the answer of what does the consumer want then I am<br>probably going to be wrong.<br><br>The fundamental question not asked and needing asking is what does the<br>population want/require, what additional Industry-led initiatives are<br>possible (eHealth, etc) and then, and only then can we answer the<br>question of how to build the thing. If this were truly an infrastructure<br>initiative then the issue of commercial return would be low on the list<br>of requirements, but having this mandated means this turns from a<br>national infrastructure project of national importance to one of product<br>marketing. And if that is the path that is going to be mandated to us<br>then we'd better be certain what product demand there is........<br><br>I tend to agree that if we the Industry can't articulate what the future<br>looks like then there is a fundamental problem. And the reason we can't<br>do that is we are not looking asking the right questions. Speaking of<br>future generations I definitely want my kids to have a future that<br>includes technology, connectivity and better than what we have today -<br>but I definitely don't want my kids and their kids paying for a white<br>elephant that nobody wants simply because we didn't ask the right<br>questions...........<br><br>Jas<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>[mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Mark Smith<br>Sent: Tuesday, 17 August 2010 8:50 AM<br>To: Matthew Moyle-Croft<br>Cc: <a href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net">ausnog@ausnog.net</a><br>Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NBN: "i want a pony! but can I afford it"<br><br>On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 15:53:51 +0930<br>Matthew Moyle-Croft <<a href="mailto:mmc@internode.com.au">mmc@internode.com.au</a>> wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On 13/08/2010, at 2:27 PM, John Edwards wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On 13/08/2010, at 2:11 PM, Matthew Moyle-Croft wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I really want, given I have some kids, to have a broadband future here<br></blockquote>in Oz. I'd like to not have bandaid after bandaid that is the current<br>suggestions. I'd REALLY like to have a vibrant communications industry<br>with a lot of options for local loops/backhaul etc.<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Time will solve that problem for you - given another change of<br></blockquote>government it is unlikely that they'll still be kids by the time any<br>broadband plan is fully executed.<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Awesome - so you're saying we're stuck with what we've got? Bravo<br></blockquote>John, very forward looking.<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Keep in mind that there were kids in regional areas starting<br></blockquote>high-school in 2007 (when the government of the day announced the<br>previous national broadband plan) who may be leaving school soon never<br>having had access to a broadband connection at home. Ask them whether<br>they care if it's 12 megs or 100.<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">So, we've failed so far, so we should continue to fail?<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">The wrong solution may not be better than no solution at all, but it's<br></blockquote>still a better result than the wasteful flip-flopping between different<br>plans that stifle other investment.<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Come on John, I've been in or around this industry for the best part<br></blockquote>of two decades. I spend my time dealing with Telstra and getting<br>DSLAMs installed, so I'm intimately familiar with the industry,<br>regulation, it's successes and failures.<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">At the moment, I'm so deeply disappointed that, on this list, no one<br></blockquote>can articulate a way forward other than "NBN is bad for me and so I<br>don't want it", so let's not change the familiar status quo.<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Even Mark resorted to "well, let's just wait and see, because we've<br></blockquote>been waiting and seeing for 2 decades".<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br>Not quite what I said. What I am saying is lets make sure the fixed<br>infrastructure only model is the right thing to do, because there are<br>obvious fundamental changes to the way people are using<br>telecommunications - they're going mobile. What is the risk of waiting<br>a year or two to see if that trend continues? Come to think if it, that<br>trend has only emerged so prevalently since the last election i.e.<br>since an NBN arrived on the political agenda. 4 or so years ago the<br>trend might not have been anywhere as near as obvious as it is now.<br><br>Thinking about it a bit more, I think 3G and the iPhone were the game<br>changers that have emerged in the last 3-4 years. 3G provided enough<br>bandwidth to provide a close to a low end broadband Internet access<br>experience, unlike it's mobile predecessors, and the iPhone provided<br>enough screen real estate and performance that using one to access the<br>Internet was close enough to accessing it using a laptop or a desktop.<br><br><blockquote type="cite">If _we_ the industry can't articulate what the future looks like, then<br></blockquote>we'll end up with it being decided for us or having nothing change<br>(because we can't explain why or what) and so we end up grumbling for<br>another few decades and be no better off.<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br>So if the Labor government hadn't come along 4 or so years ago with an<br>NBN policy, what were the industry's plans to overcome this issue that<br>is supposedly so urgent to address? I don't remember the industry<br>articulating any major plans for the future. Did the industry have a<br>vision for the future, or does it need governments to provide one for <br>it?<br><br>In the last four years, new DSLAMs have still been deployed. New Wimax<br>networks have been deployed, as have FTTH networks into housing<br>developments and major 3G networks. It actually seems that the industry<br>had a plan, if only a reactionary one driven by customer demand,<br>_despite_ the NBN and the consequential risks associated with deploying<br>new access infrastructure that may be obsoleted within the next 5 or<br>so years. This is also despite there being no guarantee of being<br>compensated for that infrastructure if customers are forced onto the<br>NBN.<br><br><blockquote type="cite">Come on. What does the future look like? If we want regulations<br></blockquote>changed, then how would that happen to be fair? How we would setup<br>things so that we could improve region by region, area by area in a way<br>that makes more sense?<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Can we devolve telecommunications local loops to councils with some<br></blockquote>national standards to the builds can be done when roads are upgraded by<br>the local councils and thus have relevancy to the people in the area?<br>(eg. like Austria and other countries)?<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Surely there are some people with ideas? I'm interested in more than<br></blockquote>just "well, we bandaid a bit for a few years and hope that "technology<br>fixes it for us"!<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">MMC<br></blockquote>_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog<br>_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG mailing list<br>AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net<br>http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog<br></div></div><br></div></div></body></html>