<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:584268910;
mso-list-template-ids:194286110;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-tab-stop:36.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l0:level2
{mso-level-tab-stop:72.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l0:level3
{mso-level-tab-stop:108.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l0:level4
{mso-level-tab-stop:144.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l0:level5
{mso-level-tab-stop:180.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l0:level6
{mso-level-tab-stop:216.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l0:level7
{mso-level-tab-stop:252.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l0:level8
{mso-level-tab-stop:288.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l0:level9
{mso-level-tab-stop:324.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l1
{mso-list-id:771361593;
mso-list-template-ids:2034923830;}
@list l2
{mso-list-id:1404527396;
mso-list-template-ids:983361360;}
@list l2:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:36.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l2:level2
{mso-level-tab-stop:72.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l2:level3
{mso-level-tab-stop:108.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l2:level4
{mso-level-tab-stop:144.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l2:level5
{mso-level-tab-stop:180.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l2:level6
{mso-level-tab-stop:216.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l2:level7
{mso-level-tab-stop:252.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l2:level8
{mso-level-tab-stop:288.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l2:level9
{mso-level-tab-stop:324.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l3
{mso-list-id:1444155876;
mso-list-template-ids:473353124;}
@list l4
{mso-list-id:1485507582;
mso-list-template-ids:1853536050;}
@list l4:level1
{mso-level-tab-stop:36.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l4:level2
{mso-level-tab-stop:72.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l4:level3
{mso-level-tab-stop:108.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l4:level4
{mso-level-tab-stop:144.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l4:level5
{mso-level-tab-stop:180.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l4:level6
{mso-level-tab-stop:216.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l4:level7
{mso-level-tab-stop:252.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l4:level8
{mso-level-tab-stop:288.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l4:level9
{mso-level-tab-stop:324.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l5
{mso-list-id:1486119474;
mso-list-template-ids:-685353688;}
@list l5:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:36.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0cm;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0cm;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple>
<div class=WordSection1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It seems that the people who don’t care are already on awesome
connections. 20mb down and 2.5 up, yeah i would pay $300 a month for that
for my personal use, but i cant buy it because im too far from the
exchange. I get 4mb/0.8mb. Wireless is not the answer (it also
seems no one is comparing apples with apples either. 12mb wireless
would be equivalent to 6mb fibre as the 12mb is shared both ways, where the
fibre is sync. They should be spruiking the fibre connection as 200mb or
2gb connections), as wireless is contended and also prone to
interference. The main problem I see with the NBN is they should be
rolling it out regional first, then metro. Start with the people who have
the crappy connections, they are more likely to take the service up. The
people who are in metro areas don’t care because they have fibre or are close
to the exchange and get high speed adsl.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>My 2c<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Daniel
Mullins</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net [mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Connors<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, 14 August 2010 10:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Matthew Moyle-Croft<br>
<b>Cc:</b> ausnog@ausnog.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] NBN: "i want a pony! but can I afford
it"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On 13 August 2010 16:23, Matthew Moyle-Croft <<a
href="mailto:mmc@internode.com.au" target="_blank">mmc@internode.com.au</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Come on John, I've been in or around this industry for the
best part of two decades. I spend my time dealing with Telstra and
getting DSLAMs installed, so I'm intimately familiar with the industry,
regulation, it's successes and failures.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>At the moment, I'm so deeply disappointed that, on this
list, no one can articulate a way forward other than "NBN is bad for me
and so I don't want it", so let's not change the familiar status quo.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Even Mark resorted to "well, let's just wait and see,
because we've been waiting and seeing for 2 decades".<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Or to accentuate the positive - these dates are off the top
of my head but:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<ol start=1 type=1>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>In around 2000 when we moved into our previous offices
we paid, IIRC, something like $700 a month for 2 x ISDN b-channels to get <b>128
kbps symmetrical</b> from TID. Excess data was 19c/meg + GST (yes, $190/GB
on a cents-per-meg basis). The other alternatives were multi-link PPP via
56K modems, DDS Fastway for $30K/year (that was just the link with no IP
transit) for 2/2 meg serial, or BigPond cable - but Telstra refused to
connect that to business premises. I think that was about the time they
slapped 3GB flat quotas on cable anyway.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>RequestDSL started offering some of the first DSL
services around shortly after that. We switched and paid, about the same $
for the same data but with <b>2 meg symmetrical</b>. I can't recall the
exact time but maybe that was 2001/2002?<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>After that, we switched providers a few times and
ended up going with iPrimus who were one of the first to allow ADSL1
without the 256/512/1.5 Telstra nonsense, I think getting <b>6 or 7 meg
down and maybe 600-700kbps up</b> (artificial limits still I think -
but whatever) That would have been about 2004/2005 - we were paying
something like $200 a month IIRC.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>According to my inbox we ordered Business Extreme
from Internode at our old office in March 2006, at which point we got
pretty close to 24 down in Albert St Brisbane. I can't recall if Annex M
was live then but if it wasn't it was shortly after. <o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>Since 2008 we have all our stuff in a data centre
and use a DSL service to access it. 20 meg down and 2.5 up for $69. <o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>So in less than a decade we've gone from:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<ol start=1 type=1>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l4 level1 lfo6'><b><u>128kbps / 128kbps @ $700 per month</u></b>
@ 19c/meg <-- 2000<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l4 level1 lfo6'><b><u>22 000 kbps / 2 500 ish kbps @ $69 per
month</u></b> with 60 GB included then shaped down to 128 kbps / 2500kbps
ish <-- 2010<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Now there are ISPs like T offering 200GB for similar prices,
or TPG offering allegedly unlimited downloads. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>So while everyone is quick to say how broken everything is
structurally and how evil T is and what not (and I don't dispute any of the
gripes posted on ausnog over the years) the fact remains that there have been
quite amazing improvements in spite of this. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Some other ways to think about it:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type=disc>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l2 level1 lfo9'>In 2000 I'd pay $700 for a link slower than most
people's shaping. Now I p1ss more than that up against the wall on
Internet radio - so much so I don't care if I go out and leave a 256kbps
stream playing all day while I'm not at my PC.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l2 level1 lfo9'>In 2000 you did not watch video. MAYBE someone
e-mailed you a 10 second MPEG and clogged your link for 5 minutes in the
process, now you don't even notice 480p videos and the biggest problem
with 1080p is that Flash can't render it properly unless you have a super
computer.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l2 level1 lfo9'>And at the risk of having all of the NBN folk
currently having a nerdgasm throw daggers at me, there was no wireless
broadband in 2000. We did some GPRS projects when T first made it
reasonably available and I think the cost of data at the time was
2.2c/kilobyte (I recall arguing with my T rep at the time that it cost
something like $20 to download the <a href="http://telstra.com"
target="_blank">telstra.com</a> home page and associated images). Looking
back over my mailbox, I worked out that syncing my mail in 2004 cost $1.50
each time I pressed Send/Receive on my iPaq PDA using IRDA to my phone
over GPRS. Now you get 3GB on no contract from Telstra for $29 a month for
HSUPA speeds.<o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I know that not everyone enjoys the benefits of having
access to an Agile DSLAM (and being close) and as I have said elsewhere,
something definitely needs to be done about RIM/pair gain/regional scenarios.
Putting that to one side, for a lot of the population, things have improved
substantially even though the regulatory environment is stuffed and T is
screwing the little man etc.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>If _we_ the industry can't articulate what the future looks
like, <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>If I had gone back to you in 2000 and said "I can buy
unlimited downloads for 70 bucks in <10 years over an existing single copper
pair at speeds approaching 20 meg down and 1 meg up" you would have told
me I have rocks in my head. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>then we'll end up with it being decided for us or having nothing
change (because we can't explain why or what) and so we end up grumbling for
another few decades and be no better off.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>That depends on whether you're a fundamentally
glass-half-full or glass-half-empty kind of person. I think on the whole, the
improvements in Internet access over the last 8-10 years or so have been quite
remarkable. Sure, things could be faster if someone else paid for the
implementation of fibre across the country - and I'd probably agree for the
need to spend $43bln if I looked back 8-10 years and saw that Internet access
in Australia had been stagnant or stuffed. It hasn't. In my view it has been
quite dynamic and improved quite markedly. For some people it has not and that
is a cause for concern and I'm not sure anyone on this thread would dispute the
need for a fix for those guys.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Come on. What does the future look like? <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Who the hell knows? No one would have predicted what
Internode were capable of delivering in 2006/2007 back in 2000.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The future is extremely difficult to anticipate. It is a LOT
of coin IF it happens on time and budget; and based on past experience with the
current government, I think either being the case is highly unlikely. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>[ ... ]<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>-- <br>
<b>David Connors</b><span style='color:silver'> </span><span
style='color:#999999'>| </span><a href="mailto:david@codify.com" target="_blank"><span
style='color:#999999'>david@codify.com</span></a><span style='color:#999999'>
| </span><a href="http://www.codify.com" target="_blank"><span
style='color:#999999'>www.codify.com</span></a><br>
Software Engineer<br>
Codify Pty Ltd<br>
Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417 189
363<br>
V-Card: <a href="https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors" target="_blank"><span
style='color:#666666'>https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors</span></a><br>
Address Info: <a href="https://www.codify.com/contact" target="_blank"><span
style='color:#666666'>https://www.codify.com/contact</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>