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<font size="-1"><font face="Verdana">Fair point indeed.<br>
<br>
However the biggest concern is that if the we were to lose the NBN I
would then question whether<br>
<small><br>
</small></font></font>
<ol>
<li><small><font face="Verdana">Would we really ever get another
opportunity like we have now?</font></small></li>
<li><small><font face="Verdana">Will Telstra be so forthcoming next
time around if we want to strike a deal for their passive
infrastructure?</font></small></li>
<li><small><font face="Verdana">And who would be the major players
next time around if things are different?</font></small><br>
</li>
</ol>
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<td>
<p class="MsoAutoSig"><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;">Andrew
Oskam<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoAutoSig"><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;">E <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:percy@th3interw3bs.net">percy@th3interw3bs.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
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<br>
<p class="MsoAutoSig"><span
style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: grey;">NOTICE:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoAutoSig"><span
style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: grey;">These
comments are my own personal opinions only and do not necessarily
reflect the positions or opinions of my employer or their affiliates.
All comments are based upon my current knowledge and my own personal
experiences. You should conduct independent tests to verify the
validity of any statements made in this email before basing any
decisions upon those statements. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
On 8/07/10 8:18 AM, Mark Smith wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:20100708074801.600431b7@opy.nosense.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 01:49:23 +1000
Andrew Oskam <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:percy@th3interw3bs.net"><percy@th3interw3bs.net></a> wrote:
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<pre wrap="">I'm in the same boat as you Skeeve - my thoughts exactly
I just can't justify the loss of the NBN.
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That's tragic - actually I find it quite distasteful. You're* all
principled about not having a Internet filter, yet aren't prepared to
give up the NBN not to have it.
Once there is a filter in place, it'll inevitably stay in place, and
likely be tightened. The tools to implement "Fahrenheit 451" and
"1984" on the Internet will be in place and under government control.
An "NBN" is inevitable, regardless of whether the government sponsors it
or not, because as technology evolves to provide more bandwidth, and
users of that increased bandwidth require it, it'll be deployed,
because they'll be willing to pay for it, and that'll provide the
business case to provide it. The uptake of ADSL is a perfect example.
There is no acceptable trade off. The NBN has got to go if it means no
filter.
(*anybody willing to make this trade off)
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<pre wrap="">Sent from my iPhone
-------------
Andrew Oskam
On 08/07/2010, at 12:54 AM, Skeeve Stevens <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Skeeve@eintellego.net"><Skeeve@eintellego.net></a>
wrote:
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<pre wrap="">Honestly, I am a Labor voter... well... was... not sure now.
If Abbot hadn’t said he was going to scrap the NBN, I would be votin
g for the Liberals... bring back Turnbull... I liked him L
...Skeeve
--
Skeeve Stevens, CEO/Technical Director
eintellego Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:skeeve@eintellego.net">skeeve@eintellego.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.eintellego.net">www.eintellego.net</a>
Phone: 1300 753 383, Fax: (+612) 8572 9954
Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 / <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="skype://skeeve">skype://skeeve</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve">www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve</a> ; facebook.com/eintellego
--
NOC, NOC, who's there?
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a> [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ausnog">mailto:ausnog</a>-
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bounces@lists.ausnog.net">bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>] On Behalf Of Matthew Moyle-Croft
Sent: Thursday, 8 July 2010 12:48 AM
To: Phillip Grasso
Cc: Skeeve Stevens; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net">ausnog@ausnog.net</a>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] What are we , collectively, doing about the
impending mandatatory censorship scheme?
Senate seats might hurt them, but ask yourself this:
What do you know about the Opposition's views on the filter? If
Labor lose will it mean scraping the idea or claiming it as their
own to claim the same voting block?
If the Opposition support it and so do Labor then the minorities are
irrelevant in the Senate.
MMC
On 07/07/2010, at 11:55 PM, Phillip Grasso wrote:
you raise good points, let me say this;
Senate Seats. Hit them where it hurts.
my back of envelope count is that we'll need 338K votes to get 1
senate seat.
1 Senate seat will probably be enough to do damage to a filtering
program, especially when they would want to do deals to get other
things across (assuming they don't have an overwhelming majority)
On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 12:11 AM, Matthew Moyle-Croft <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mmc@internode.com.au">mmc@internode.com.au</a>
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<pre wrap="">wrote:
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On 07/07/2010, at 11:22 PM, Phillip Grasso wrote:
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<pre wrap="">its been pretty clear what Google position all along. Why else do
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<pre wrap="">you think Conroy has it in for Google.
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<pre wrap="">
The problem is that not enough 'outcry' from the industry is
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<pre wrap="">there, so Conroy is free to say he's got the support of the
industry, with a possibly few big players in his back pocket due to
NBN, he can say things such as 'industry consultation/support' etc.
I think we could be super organised, with a huge media budget and
the Fed Govt wouldn't change their mind before the election.
If they did change their mind then the opposition would just use it
to show (a) they're backing down and not delivering on YET another
policy (b) not tough on Child Pornography (c) not protecting our
kids. Which ever of the arguments works the best for TonyA at the
time.
This isn't a rational argument. It's clear the Conroy isn't
interested in rational arguments. The whole proposal is laughable
(heck, I've just come back from the US where we ARE a joke because
of this - most people think it's already running!), but still, the
telecommunications industry is a poor block of votes compared to
keeping the conservative Christian lobby on side (the people who
want this).
The focus really needs to be on these things:
If Labor is reelected will they claim they have a mandate to
implement the filter (even if no one voted Labor because of it).
Or will it die as a "non-core promise" if Conroy is moved on as
telecommunications minister?
If the Liberals are elected instead, what will they do? Will they
show sanity and kill it (small-l liberal) or be beholden to the same
conservative Christian lobby who have convinced Labor it's a good
idea.
Labor, as above, can't be and won't be able to chance their minds
before the election. The question is - will this be an election
issue or will we be back to beating up on the vunerable and non-
voting refugees again like the tough people we are. (Must remind
Christians like TonyA about what Christianity is about - seem to
remember a few bits from the Bible from Sunday school and Jesus
embracing everyone and looking after the poor and destitute, not
just some of them - anyway, offtopic).
MMC
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