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<font size="-1"><font face="Verdana">I've nothing new to raise except
that I felt that the comments made below by David is something that I
agree with and have been thinking for a while now.</font></font><br>
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<p class="MsoAutoSig"><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;">Andrew
Oskam<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoAutoSig"><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: black;">E <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:percy@th3interw3bs.net">percy@th3interw3bs.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<br>
<p class="MsoAutoSig"><span
style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: grey;">NOTICE:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoAutoSig"><span
style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: grey;">These
comments are my own personal opinions only and do not necessarily
reflect the positions or opinions of my employer or their affiliates.
All comments are based upon my current knowledge and my own personal
experiences. You should conduct independent tests to verify the
validity of any statements made in this email before basing any
decisions upon those statements. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
On 9/06/10 3:15 PM, David Connors wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:AANLkTikt4aXGBhAieLqlOuw_y2tMBTrtaY3nM_eMlJxj@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">On 9 June 2010 13:20, Richard Pruss <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ric@cisco.com">ric@cisco.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="im">Way out of my narrow area of expertise here </div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So am I but that does not appear to be stopping everyone else
from interpreting the law or offering opinions. I am eminently
unqualified to comment and so shall pile on. </div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="im">I have a few fumbling basic question here. How
much of network Ethernet/WiFi/L2/L3/l4-L7 do you feel is covered by the
TIA?</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>[ ... ]</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">If
INTENDED RECIPIENT does not include anything that can get and one
expects to forward/drop on the message, allot of things networks
regularly do become implicated and possibly "BAD".<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So the elephant in the room no one is talking about is the fact
that ISPs and network providers do promiscuous packet captures every
day of the week on wired networks that customers presume to be secure.
I'd venture that if you went and had a look at the file servers/laptops
of network engineers at nearly every ISP/hoster/whatever on this list
you would find that there is a pcap or three laying around that
contains more data than was needed or intended - maybe even personally
identifiable information and so on. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm not all that sure there is too much difference between a
network provider collecting my PII and storing it on an engineer's
laptop just because my personal data happened to transit their IX while
they were analysing or debugging something - and what Google did
(except in the Google case there is *some* negligence on my part for
not having my wifi encrypted). </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Meanwhile, Conroy births another half-a-dozen kittens carrying
on about how Google *deliberately wrote* software to collect all of
this data. "Eric Schmidt says Google loves cash!!", and other non
sequiturs he barks at the Senate, as if to show the horrid depths of
their packet snaffling depravity.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sheesh. Give me a break and get out your Occam's razor. The most
likely scenario is that some poor sod at Google uses tcpdump or knocks
up something using libpcap and runs it on 11-13 radio interfaces in
promiscuous mode and collects a heap of stuff driving 'round (hard
disks are cheap compared to drive around the world AGAIN if you didn't
get all the data you need). The intention would be to analyse it later
to generate the necessary data to support W3C location support back in
the office. Network engineers do promiscuous packet captures all the
time. Grab all the data - more the better - when you can - and pore
over it back in the office to get whatever the required outcome is.
They might even keep the original captures around to re-run their
analysis later to prove other assumptions/etc. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have never seen anyone carefully exclude errant HTTP traffic
from their captures before analysis (in the interests of privacy, the
law, or anything else). </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Unfortunately for Google, they are one of the new whipping boys
of privacy on the Internet. If the AFP decided to randomly raid a bunch
of ISPs they would find all sorts of packet captures in tmp directories
and backup tapes containing all sorts of data to which the ISP is not
entitled. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Conroy has a bug up his proverbial and wants to discredit Google
as if that will somehow bolster his position on the mandatory filter.
He gets a few rants in the press/senate. A bunch of people pile on in
some sort of half-cocked conspiracy theory that Google is going to make
off with the fact I was on Facebook when they drove past my house on
the 23rd of April last year and captured data for the 15 seconds they
were in range.</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>He has more important things to worry about - like the 20 000
scams and spams coming through the ... ummm ... portal.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>$0.022 inc GST</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-- </div>
</div>
David Connors (<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:david@codify.com">david@codify.com</a>)<br>
Software Engineer<br>
Codify Pty Ltd - <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.codify.com">www.codify.com</a><br>
Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61
417 189 363<br>
V-Card: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors">https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors</a><br>
Address Info: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.codify.com/contact">https://www.codify.com/contact</a><br>
<br>
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