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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Gisa, personal attacks are not necessary either and not for this
forum, with some pacnogers and picisocers having this forum as only means to
hear and exchange ideas, views and intellects.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Fred<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Tai Purcell [mailto:taipurcell@hotmail.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 3 March 2010 8:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> picisoc@picisoc.org; gih@apnic.net<br>
<b>Cc:</b> pacnog@pacnog.org; skeeve@eintellego.net; apnic-talk@apnic.net;
pita@connect.com.fj; ausnog@ausnog.net; nznog@list.waikato.ac.nz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [PICISOC] [AusNOG] [pacnog] RIPE NCC Position On The ITU
IPv6 Group<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>OK I have read this thread with interest.
Geoff, this is not a forum for you to run down other organisations who
have been in place, set up communication standards and
helped different countries address their telco needs, before you were even
borne!<br>
<br>
You did not answer Fred's questions. Why should ITU look at the
technical side of the Internet when there is ICANN, IETF etc? ITU and
other organisations are looking the policy, regulation and legislation
among other good work.<br>
<br>
So, if you cannot answer Fred's question, then take your issues and spit it out
else where and not on this forum. Why? Has ITU not selected you for a certain
position or a consulting role? Try and understand organisations and their
good work for the world telecommunication before you speak. The ITU is
focussing on the Internet policy amonth other things and may be you
should learn how to spell the workd diplomacy otherwise, remove
yourself from both picisoc and pacnog lists. <br>
<br>
> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 12:18:53 +1200<br>
> From: franck@avonsys.com<br>
> To: gih@apnic.net<br>
> CC: pacnog@pacnog.org; Skeeve@eintellego.net; apnic-talk@apnic.net;
picisoc@picisoc.org; pita@connect.com.fj; ausnog@ausnog.net;
nznog@list.waikato.ac.nz<br>
> Subject: Re: [PICISOC] [AusNOG] [pacnog] RIPE NCC Position On The ITU IPv6
Group<br>
> <br>
> Geoff, well said but who you are closer to all of this: when is the last
time the ITU-T has made a standard which is relevant for the Internet?<br>
> <br>
> H323, was converted to SIP and even MPLS is tackled by the IETF... As you
indicate, ITU is a body looking for relevance, which runs so far from its own
inertia. It seems a new body is needed, where people can sit and tackle, but
the Internet has changed so much the way people participate, that I don't even
know if that's the answer.<br>
> <br>
> To be fair, the IETF standard process is becoming hard, some say harder
than the ISO process. Something to watch and try to fix, but I know some good
folks have already identified the issues.<br>
> <br>
> Oh, and while we are discussing paradigm shifts, with social media we are
living a social revolution (may be even bigger than the one in the 60s) that
few adults are able to completely understand and therefore are trying to stop
it than to embrace, but that's another story... <br>
> <br>
> Franck Martin <br>
> http://www.avonsys.com/ <br>
> http://www.facebook.com/Avonsys <br>
> twitter: FranckMartin Avonsys <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> ----- Original Message -----<br>
> From: "Geoff Huston" <gih@apnic.net><br>
> To: pita@connect.com.fj<br>
> Cc: "Franck Martin" <franck@avonsys.com>, "Skeeve Stevens"
<Skeeve@eintellego.net>, "AusNOG" <ausnog@ausnog.net>,
apnic-talk@apnic.net, "nznog" <nznog@list.waikato.ac.nz>,
pacnog@pacnog.org<br>
> Sent: Sunday, 28 February, 2010 1:42:58 PM<br>
> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] [pacnog] RIPE NCC Position On The ITU IPv6 Group<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On 27/02/2010, at 6:51 PM, pita@connect.com.fj wrote:<br>
> <br>
> > Some folks just likeshooting down other organisations and missinmg
the issues<br>
> > <br>
> > Can the contribution be more on the issues otherwise take it
elsewhere<br>
> > <br>
> > Keep the minds open as there are some real valid and serious issues
here. <br>
> > <br>
> > So to start with,you can contribute on the issues raised or why the
study is needed?<br>
> > <br>
> > One of the commonly supported ideals is having competition. <br>
> > <br>
> > Is this an issue if organised well?<br>
> > <br>
> > How about security.. Can we all live it to system?<br>
> > <br>
> > I would really like to hear good strong arguments for both sides<br>
> > <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Hi Fred,<br>
> <br>
> In response to your request for some contributions to the topics of
competition in address distribution, Paul Wilson and I wrote the following some
years back: http://www.potaroo.net/ispcol/2005-04/compete.html<br>
> <br>
> I believe that you will find that this article directly addresses the
issues relating to the potential effects of competing address distribution
systems within the same protocol set. I note that nothing has changed in the
intervening period.<br>
> <br>
> At the time I also wrote a broader look at the motivations of the ITU in
this space, and you can find that at: http://www.potaroo.net/ispcol/2004-11/2004-11-isp.htm
<br>
> <br>
> The ITU evolved over the 20th century to match the needs and desires of
its constituents and as many, if not all, national regimes addressed the social
needs for broad access to a single functional telephone network via national
monopolies , the ITU assumed, in effect, the role of being the monopolists
club. Since many of these monopolies were publically owned and operated
enterprises the role of governments and the role of the monopoly actors were
closely aligned. There were some chinks in this approach, chiefly relating to
the use of inter-provider (all, to call it by its real name at the time
"inter-government") payments for the increasingly lucrative area of
international communications, and the opposition was mainly from the US, but on
the whole the ITU was tolerated given the lack of any viable alternative. <br>
> <br>
> The Internet was not an isolated technological innovation - it rode upon
the back of progressive deregulation of the telecommunications sector in the
late 20th century. The Internet players have been firmly rooted in a vibrantly
competitive and largely deregulated private sector, and the ITU has been
supremely irrelevant to their business models. But the ITU still has a set of
folk who feel that their interests are best articulated by this august body,
even if their individual interests are possibly as simple as preserving their
rather comfortable lifestyle in Geneva while living on permanent travel
allowance! I must admit, however, that I find it ironic that the latest efforts
by the ITU to regain some degree of relevance in this shifted world order of
the largely deregulated competitive telecommunications environment that we live
in today, have the ITU invoking the mantra of "competition!" >From the
supreme head of the former monopolist club that indeed is an ironic, and
economically and politically speaking a naive and inept move on the part of the
ITU, in my view.<br>
> <br>
> So I agree with you Fred in the assertion that these are indeed
significant issues - to quote from the closing para of the second document I've
referenced:<br>
> <br>
> "It is unlikely that James Watt would've looked at the governor he
had invented for the steam engine and foreseen the fundamental way that the
ensuing industrial revolution would change the lives of every human on the
planet over the ensuing centuries. His was a simple problem of technology.<br>
> <br>
> At its outset the Internet was also a simple problem of technology. Today
it is no longer just a question of technology, but also a more fundamental
question of entering a process of social change, as we embrace a world of
information, where the economic forces appear to be related to the capability
of acquiring and exploiting information."<br>
> <br>
> Regards,<br>
> <br>
> Geoff Huston<br>
> <br>
> Usual Disclaimers - these are all my views.<br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> PICISOC members discussion mailing list<br>
> PICISOC@picisoc.org<br>
> Unsubscription and other options:<br>
> http://picisoc.org/mailman/listinfo/picisoc_picisoc.org<br>
> PICISOC Web site:<br>
> http://www.picisoc.org/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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