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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=433190913-21102009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I suppose it's "the holes of nothing that make it really
something"... :)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=433190913-21102009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=433190913-21102009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>[b]</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> John Lindsay
[mailto:jlindsay@internode.com.au] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 21 October 2009
10:58 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Ben Grubb<BR><B>Cc:</B> Bevan Slattery;
ausnog@ausnog.net<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [AusNOG] CCC and Terria "rage against
coalition"<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Actually Conroy is doing a great job of telling the truth very carefully
and getting his audience to fill in the gaps. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>He is saying:</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>The 10% end up with copper loops and WiMax/LTE/satellite but no
fibre. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>And,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>The 90% end up with fibre and no copper in the end game.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>That's entirely consistent. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Further options include: NBNCo could end up with the USO and any retailer
could provide the service. Or Telstra could keep it's copper and remain
responsible. There are lots of endgames. <BR><BR>Cheers,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>jsl</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR>On 21/10/2009, at 10:58 PM, Ben Grubb <<A
href="mailto:ben@techwiredau.com">ben@techwiredau.com</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>Some good points raised. I've bolded the point I am confused about.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Another:</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><B>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">September
15 </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal">TONY JONES: But
in short - just to cut you short there - just to finish or see if I can get an
actual answer to the question: in the end, what you don't want to see is two
separate networks.</SPAN><BR><BR><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal">STEPHEN CONROY: Well we've said we want to build a
wholesale-only, open access network, and I think if you look at what's
transpired over the last 15 to 20 years, the competing infrastructure model
has failed to deliver competition. And what we're looking to do is introduce a
wholesale-only company. We welcome Telstra, Optus, any of the other potential
vendors to be part of our network. <B>And if that turns out to be a
partnership with Telstra, it would see, as we lay the copper - the fibre into
the homes, we'd be taking the copper out. And we - the NBN Co. would become
the sole connection from the curb to the home. So, yes, that is one of the
options that may come from the discussions that are taking place at the
moment.</B></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2008/s2687024.htm"><A
href="http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2008/s2687024.htm">http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2008/s2687024.htm</A></A></DIV></B>
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<P><B>Today:</B></P>
<P>Journalist: Senator, who's going to take responsibility for providing phone
services to 10 per cent of households who don't get access to the fibre optic
cables?</P>
<P>Let's be clear. It's unfortunate that Senator Minchin is struggling to
understand the difference between a broadband service and a phone
line. <B>No one has suggested that the copper lines in the 10 per cent
are suddenly going to vanish or that they're going to be cut off or that
they're going to be pulled out, which is exactly what Nick Minchin's
suggesting.</B></P>
<P>There's nothing in this legislation whatsoever that suggests that, except
we are strengthening the universal service obligation. So the universal
service obligation is what pays, via a levy today paid to Telstra to provide
that service. And nothing is changing. And for Nick Minchin to not understand
the difference between delivering a broadband network over wireless and
satellite and a copper-based phone service is just embarrassing.</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: medium Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV>
<DIV>-- <BR>Ben Grubb</DIV></DIV></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On 21/10/2009, at 11:17 PM, Bevan Slattery wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=855130812-21102009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>I have to completely agree. There are many holes in the
legislation and logic. I think with the appropriate
time/consulting/feedback this could be very worthwhile. But there are
some extraordinary inconsistencies with the legislation, public comment by
politicians and industry types. In a doorstop interview today Sen
Conroy said:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=855130812-21102009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=855130812-21102009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>"<FONT face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Let's be clear. It's unfortunate
that Senator Minchin is struggling to understand the difference between a
broadband service and a phone line. No-one has suggested that the copper
lines in the 10 per cent are suddenly going to vanish or that they're going
to be cut off or that they're going to be pulled out, which is exactly what
Nick Minchin's suggesting."</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=855130812-21102009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=855130812-21102009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I am confused. So when
Telstra are forced to split under the current legislation and handover it's
network to NBN Co (or whoever) who is actually responsible for maintaining
those exchanges and it's associated copper. I thought Telstra were not
going to operate a fixed line service under the separation
model?</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=855130812-21102009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=855130812-21102009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Anyone? Foreman from the
CCC?</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=855130812-21102009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=855130812-21102009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">[b]</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=855130812-21102009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Grahame Lynch
[mailto:grahamelynch@commsdaymail.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 21
October 2009 9:58 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Bevan Slattery<BR><B>Cc:</B> <A
href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net"><A
href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net">ausnog@ausnog.net</A></A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [AusNOG] CCC and Terria "rage against coalition"<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I'm intrigued by this idea that you can one hand legislate
to compel Telstra to divest any ownership ties to a fixed
network and become a pure retailer but on the other hand - in the same bill
- you can legislate even greater requirements than today for Telstra to be
responsible for fixed network delivery in the bush via the USO.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Seems to me like a fairly irreconcilable twin set of obligations to me.
The government line is that it will all be figured out down the track which
I guess is fair enough - if you're also prepared to relax the
apparently urgent deadline for the legislation itself and the requirement
for Telstra to commit to the terms of its separation before it knows the
terms of its obligations in terms of USO and so forth.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Somebody in the Department has made a mess of this one.<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>2009/10/21 Bevan Slattery <SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:Bevan.Slattery@staff.pipenetworks.com"><A
href="mailto:Bevan.Slattery@staff.pipenetworks.com">Bevan.Slattery@staff.pipenetworks.com</A></A>></SPAN><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><A
href="http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/323020/rage_against_coalition_industry_"
target=_blank><A
href="http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/323020/rage_against_coalition_industry_">http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/323020/rage_against_coalition_industry_</A></A><BR>lashes_opposition_fights_against_telstra_separation<BR><BR>Bit
over the top?? I'd like to see the legislation look at solving
the<BR>real/future problems such as reduce the negotiate/arbitrate process
for<BR>regulated (rather than only declared as proposed in the
legislation)<BR>bottleneck infrastructure such as duct access (NBN) and
towers (4G/LTE)<BR>rather than mainly focus on the copper
world.<BR><BR>I'm trying to think why the violent reaction from CCC and
TERRIA? Is it<BR>no longer 'cool' to ask
questions?<BR><BR>[b]<BR>_______________________________________________<BR>AusNOG
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net"><A
href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</A></A><BR><A
href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target=_blank><A
href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</A></A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR
clear=all>
<DIV></DIV><BR>-- <BR>Grahame Lynch<BR>Ph/SMS: +668 1701 7664<BR>Skype:
grahame.lynch<BR>URL: <A href="http://www.commsday.com/"><A
href="http://www.commsday.com">www.commsday.com</A></A><BR></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>AusNOG
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net"><A
href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</A></A><BR><A
href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV><SPAN>_______________________________________________</SPAN><BR><SPAN>AusNOG
mailing list</SPAN><BR><SPAN><A
href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</A></SPAN><BR><SPAN><A
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