<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi Bill, Shane,<div><br></div><div>While yes, that is true about legacy AUNIC ranges, there are other contact records you can dig up.</div><div><br></div><div>For example, look at the AS that is advertising the range you're interested in look at the whois data not just for that range and the advertising AS, but also on the other ranges being advertised by that AS. I'm sure that for most networks of interest, there will be multiple IP ranges being advertised. Failing that, www.$AS-owner.tld/contact.html ?</div><div><br></div><div>Might be less automated, but its by no means impossible to get in touch.</div><div><br></div><div>Shane, billing data, as you're well aware (<b>especially</b> from previous employment we've had together) is generally the most up to-date, especially where any billing is done at frequent intervals. </div><div><br></div><div>What happened to the 'IP phone in each NOC' project so you could just dial an AS and speak to the NOC easily? Is that still going?</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers!</div><div>-Shaun</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On 20/09/2009, at 9:02 AM, Bill Walker wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div ocsi="x"><div dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" size="2" face="Tahoma">Most of those legacy assignments, especially the small ones don't get charged anything. So there will be no billing.</font></div><div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="tahoma"></font> </div><div dir="ltr"> </div><div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="tahoma"></font> </div><div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="tahoma">Cheers,</font></div><div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="tahoma"></font> </div><div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="tahoma">Bill</font></div><div id="divRpF322052" style="direction: ltr; "><hr tabindex="-1"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>] On Behalf Of Shane Short [<a href="mailto:shane@short.id.au">shane@short.id.au</a>]<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, 18 September 2009 10:26 p.m.<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Shaun Dwyer<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net">ausnog@ausnog.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [AusNOG] New /21 on Bogan / Delinquent Lists<br></font><br></div><div></div><div><br><div><div>On 18/09/2009, at 4:46 PM, Shaun Dwyer wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div><br><div><div>On 18/09/2009, at 8:26 AM, Shane Short wrote:</div><snip<br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 09:29:37 +1000, "Darren Moss" <<a href="mailto:Darren.Moss@em3.com.au">Darren.Moss@em3.com.au</a>><br>wrote:<br><snip><br><blockquote type="cite">I am surprised that in this day and age we don't have.....<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">A) APNIC checking block owner details and suspending where information is<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">not correct (ie: automatic email checking or automatic phone dialer with<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">response keys required)<br></blockquote><br>This may sound rather daft, but if the contact information for the<br>particular IP block is incorrect, how does APNIC get in contact with the<br>person to tell them their details are wrong? What about all the legacy<br>AUNIC blocks that were brought over that aren't associated with an APNIC<br>account?<br><br>I'm not even so sure how APNIC would go about 'suspending' the IP address<br>space, especially if they're unable to contact the owner. Maybe they'd<br>publish it in a blacklist of sorts? I wonder how long it'd take someone to<br>realise this and get on the phone to their lawyer, because these 'APNIC'<br>people have stopped their internets working.<br></div></blockquote></div><snip><div><br></div><div>I agree with Darren on this one. Sanity checking contact data is always a good thing.<br><div><br></div><div>As to how to get in touch, APNIC would get in touch using their billing data. If there is anything you can rely on being up to date, its a billing database.</div><div><br></div><div>Given that invoices are sent out once a year by APNIC for members to renew, contact details should perhaps be updated at this point in time too. Perhaps even just an automated email goes out requiring a link be clicked to say '<i>yes, im alive and paying attention</i>' once every 6 months? No response in 2 weeks? escalate to a billing contact, still no response?, flag as 'needs a phone call'. Shouldn't need to hire any more people, just a bit of work for the in-house development team.</div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#144fae"><br></font></font></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>You've never tried to get in contact with someone with technical clue via the billing department before, have you? :)</div><div>Sure, in an ideal world this'd work, but the problem is again the legacy AUNIC ranges in 203/8 which are so so old they almost definitely don't have the correct info. (if you recall shaun, a few of the old ranges at one of our previous employers were, and continue to be incorrect)</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><div>Don't get me wrong, APNIC do a great job... just like with anything, there is always scope for improvement.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Sure, APNIC do a great job and they continue to do so when with their de-bogoning project, but why should APNIC be held responsible for people who don't set their equipment up properly, or don't maintain it correctly? </div><div><br></div><div>As a community, we're responsible for the current mess and as a community, I think we should make some kind of effort to try and resolve the problem, which comes back to my original suggestion of a 'known offenders' list of networks who don't keep their filtering up-to-date along with methods in which to contact them in the event they are incorrectly blocking you. This would've been a great help when I was trying to contact certain people, that's for sure. Also the publicness of it might encourage them to rethink their policies.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><div><br></div><div>Cheers!</div><div>-Shaun</div><div><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><div>-Shane</div><div><br></div>No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG -<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.100/2374 - Release Date: 09/17/09 15:55:00</div></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>