<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>On 17/09/2009, at 9:21 AM, Mark Smith wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Brad Gould wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Adrian Chadd wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">So what about direct customer<->customer communication? Does that have<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">to pass through your aggregation layer(s) ?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br>I think that should only be an option. Mandatory hair-pinning of traffic <br>is terribly inefficient when the nodes are adjacent at layer two and <br>therefore could take to each other directly (at layer 2 and 3).<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I don't have a major issue of having local traffic, but I do wonder if it's worth while.</div><div><br></div><div>In order to overcome one "inefficiency" you may have to wear quite a bit of complexity:</div><div><br></div><div>Defining even seemingly simple "adjacent nodes" in such a large and complex network might be hard as adjacency maybe temporary - ie. the concentrator you connect to may move locations or no longer be connected on a common piece of local equipment. If they're not longer "adjacent" then who pays for the backhaul between the nodes? Who measures it? Even we have exchange sites where backhaul isn't common for equipment at the same exchange - there's no local connectivity at all between different bits of equipment.</div><div><br></div><div>There's also a lot of simplicity in defining all circuits as point (customer) to point (aggregation point). If you start having to have exceptions (customer to customer, customer to multiple customer) points then complexity increases. </div><div><br></div><div>What %age of traffic is going to be customer to customer on a local node? This may change depending on how the last mile network is built and how big the aggregation sites are (lots of small ones in huts, or a fewer big ones in large building/data centres?)</div><div><br></div><div>I think the MAJOR question for the NBN will be, not what the customer port costs, but what the aggregation charge is. If the NBNCo think they're going to charge the same kinds of $$ as TLS and Optus do for ADSL and then charge extra from "quality" and "services" I think we're going to be in a world of "well, I can't afford as a provider to deliver IPTV because it'll cost me $300/customer in aggregation at peak" (etc).</div><div><br></div><div>MMC</div></div><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>-- <br>Matthew Moyle-Croft </div><div>Networks, Internode/Agile<br>Level 5, 162 Grenfell Street, Adelaide, SA 5000 Australia<br>Email: <a href="mailto:mmc@internode.com.au">mmc@internode.com.au</a> Web: <a href="http://www.on.net/">http://www.on.net</a><br>Direct: +61-8-8228-2909<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span> Mobile: +61-419-900-366<br>Reception: +61-8-8228-2999 Fax: +61-8-8235-6909<br></div></div></span></div></span></div></span> </div><br></body></html>