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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=890345722-08082009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Noel,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=890345722-08082009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=890345722-08082009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>This list is a PIPE Networks list? No. Steve and
I created it. We do it in the interests of the community. We
don't get any commercial gain by this. After the failure of the previous
efforts (such as Oz-ISP and isp-Australia) to operate a list in a professional
manner we decided to pro-actively set up a list for operators. I went and
organised the domain name, Steve and I personally emailed and rang
many, many people who are, in our opinion the network elite in this country
asking them to subscribe so we could get critical mass on it to make it
worthwhile. We used our commercial and personal contacts to create
that nucleus. The success of the list is now merely because of the people
who subscribe to it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=890345722-08082009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=890345722-08082009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>The list doesn't mention anything about PIPE Networks,
doesn't have any relationship with PIPE. PIPE Networks founders,
founded this list. PIPE does host it at no cost, but again, there is no
recognition of this fact.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=890345722-08082009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=890345722-08082009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Your assertions that David and I are dictatorial and not
consultative in our approach is way off the mark. The fact we actually
went to "reply to list" in the first place is a testament to that. The
feedback from people directly to David and myself and in particular their
concerns around someone potentially unintentionally making a statement or
disclosing personally/commercially sensitive information to the list due to it's
new configuration was a real concern. We weighed this up and provided an
opportunity for people to 'violently object' and frankly no-one provided a good
enough reason other than "to many people in the CC" line. We made a change
at peoples request and we felt it's benefit was outweighed by the risk of
unintentional disclosure.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=890345722-08082009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=890345722-08082009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=890345722-08082009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>If you are unhappy with the way we (as in David and
I) operate it, unsubscribe. If you think you can do a better job
start your own 'democratic' list whatever that
maybe.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=890345722-08082009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=890345722-08082009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>[b]</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=890345722-08082009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=890345722-08082009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>PS: You must have forgotten to cc: the list on your
response to me. Knowing you wanted the list to see all replies I have
responded to the list for you.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><BR>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Noel Butler
[mailto:noel.butler@ausics.net] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, 9 August 2009 8:17
AM<BR><B>To:</B> Bevan Slattery<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [AusNOG] List is now
reply-to-sender<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>On Sat, 2009-08-08 at 22:21 +1000, Bevan Slattery wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE="CITE"><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff>Guys,</FONT></FONT>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE="CITE"> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE="CITE">"1/ its not the way a good list is setup, despite your
rantings" </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE="CITE"> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE="CITE"><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff>In my
experience a good list is one where there are plenty of good people who
contribute their time and knowledge for the good of participants. We
have that.</FONT></FONT> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE="CITE"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>no need to grasp for excuses for your
decision, we know its a PIPE networks list so what PIPE decides goes.<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE="CITE"><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff>Reply to sender is
how this list operates (as it has for the majority of it's life). Time
to move on I think.</FONT></FONT> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>David asks for opinions, then
you and he decide on your own "stuff what the list membership wants"
(given the vast majority responding in that thread all supported reply-to
list).. <BR>well good to know there no such thing as a democracy on
ausnog, thats my final word on it. <PRE>
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