<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">It's also worth mentioning in the history of last-mile in Australia - the government (through PMG etc) built the last comprehensive LMN in the country whilst it had a monopoly. TLS has done little to it since.<div><br></div><div>MMC</div><div><br><div><div>On 12/04/2009, at 10:42 AM, Matthew Moyle-Croft wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Tim McCullagh wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">The issue is not is FTTH a good idea. The issue is "is there demand <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">and a need for it" and are consumers prepared to pay for it. From the <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">industry point of view "how will it operate and under what rules, <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">costs etc etc that bevan eluded to". Matthew have you ever dealt with <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">DBCDE. If you have you will probably know why this is important. <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">They have no bloody idea about the industry and they will advise the <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">government on how to draft the regulations.<br></blockquote>Yep - as an access seeker we've dealt with all kinds of bits of <br>government and I agree with you about DBCDE.<br><br>I think that rather than assume failure, we need to at least, as an <br>industry, start working hard on ensuring that the outcomes match what we <br>want/need. Are you a member of, for example, Communications Alliance? <br>I'm certainly hoping CA can take a bit of a lead in standards settings <br>etc in an NBN world. If not CA, then some other appropriate body.<br><br>At the moment, because of history so far, we've ended up in a situation <br>where TLS have dominated the scene (and will continue to do so really) <br>and as such we haven't ended up with the competitor density to deliver <br>alternative last mile networks in brown fields areas. We've got some <br>Optus cable, TransACT and a tiny bit with Bright. None of which can be <br>claimed to be roaring successes. We're only now seeing a tiny bit of <br>FTTP in some new areas.<br><br>So, the idea that commerical forces will create this network in the time <br>frame we want, when, as you both claim, this NBN FTTP thing is not <br>commercially viable, I think is being foolish.<br><br>The outcome I was hoping you'd both suggest is one where incentives are <br>put in place to build alternative LMN (Last-Mile-networks) and balance <br>TLS's vertical integration. Many countries - Korea, Japan etc have <br>made large tax-incentives (some similar to the R&D 150% rebates here) to <br>ensure that the networks are built. Japan has many more alternative <br>networks, even though NTT there is just as scary as TLS here.<br>The issues, as you've both suggested are commercial not technical. So, <br>if the government had wanted to go down that path, they could have made <br>the right economic tweaks to start that happening. <br><br>The only problem is - GFC. No one can borrow (see Bevan's issue with <br>"a mere US$100m"). So, guess what - the government has put itself in <br>play as the backer of the project so that it gets built! <br><br>Governments have a place in looking toward the future and making <br>decisions which (hopefully) set us in the right direction for the longer <br>term (yeah, you can be cynical, but it is the role of government). <br>Their current NBN decision is to try and set that infrastructure up and <br>get it moving early so that when we want it (10 years out) it's built <br>and ready. <br><br>Deep down I want many LMN. I want commercial reality to triumph and to <br>have real infrastructure competition. But the way the competitive <br>market place in Australia has occured due to the way TLS was sold off <br>has meant it either won't happen or it'll just take too long and affect <br>the economic outlook of our country.<br><br>If the NBN tries to sell it's ports for too much then it won't work. <br>The goverment needs the pricing to drive take up so it can get the <br>economic outcomes it desires. So, I think the government will take a <br>bath on it. It's the only way.<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I would rather be in Telstra's position than the NBN corporation, if I <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">was I could turn NBN into a huge white elephant even with the <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">government in the NBN corner. That is not to say it won't hurt <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Telstra and this the shareholders like yours and my super funds. You <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">cannot unscramble an egg<br></blockquote>You can't unscramble it, But you can cook it with parsley, milk and <br>cracked pepper and it's tasty.<br><br>MMC<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">regards<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Tim<br></blockquote>_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>-- <br>Matthew Moyle-Croft </div><div>Networks, Internode/Agile<br>Level 5, 162 Grenfell Street, Adelaide, SA 5000 Australia<br>Email: <a href="mailto:mmc@internode.com.au">mmc@internode.com.au</a> Web: <a href="http://www.on.net/">http://www.on.net</a><br>Direct: +61-8-8228-2909<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span> Mobile: +61-419-900-366<br>Reception: +61-8-8228-2999 Fax: +61-8-8235-6909<br></div></div></span></div></span></div></span> </div><br></div></body></html>