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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>For AAPT,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I’m pretty sure that for standard BGP changes, i.e. through the AAPT
Customer portal, A human at AAPT makes the changes, then the BGP changes get
rolled out at midnight / 1am ish.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I just wish everyone would have a sinkhole community for /32’s
so that we have some form of control ourselves without having to bug the NOC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I’ve found both UECOMM and OPTUS have first level techs that you
need to get through, but BGP admins are never far away 24x7.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>But for Primus, I have no idea, as I haven’t dealt with them.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>-S<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'> ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net
[mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Campbell, Alex<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 2 November 2008 4:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> skeeve@skeeve.org; ausnog@ausnog.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Primus BGP support<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Thanks for the reply Skeeve.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>I agree it’s not reasonable to expect the NOClings to be
able to troubleshoot BGP issues, but they need to be able to recognise these
issues and know where/how to escalate them to someone who can.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>18 hours since we first reported the problem and I still
haven’t been able to get anyone from Primus to fix this issue. Even AAPT
would have sorted this by now. I’ve got on to our account manager but
this doesn’t seem to be helping.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Does anyone have a clueful contact at Primus who might be
able to help tonight? It appears the problems are configuration issues at
their end so it is going to need someone who has enable on their routers.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Alex<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'> Skeeve Stevens [mailto:skeeve@skeeve.org] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 2 November 2008 1:54 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Campbell, Alex; ausnog@ausnog.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [AusNOG] Primus BGP support<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Their
response is certainly not reasonable…. But you will find it the case a lot of
the time.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I’ve
had BGP issues with several carriers on the weekends and late at night, and it
has always been a nightmare getting them to escalate to someone who has a clue
with BGP to look at the issues…. Most of the time the ‘NOC’ staff don’t even
know what BGP is much less able to fix it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>It
is probably too much to expect the people answering the phones to be know BGP,
but they should understand the concepts of their network, and they should be
able to escalate the ticket to someone who actually knows what to do – or who
to call. I find that ‘hyping’ the outage in these cases helps… tell them
it is a critical outage involving some large number, or important end customer
or some such… works most of the time. When that fails I ask for
their escalation contacts and start calling account managers mobiles and other
people I can annoy who know how to else to annoy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Does
your contract talk about their SLA’s? I find that most SLA’s are severely
lacking and rarely detail their NOC’s response and actions. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>If
the sales guy said that then there has been a breach of verbal contract – but
you’d have fun fighting that. Go up the line…. Not that it helps
sometimes… try talking to Soul… they’re TPG’s bitch now and barely have any
ability to get things done with their upstream network. Last BGP issue I
had with Soul took a huge effort by the Soul people to get the TPG phone monkey
to even wake up the on-call engineer – and that took hours. Soul sales
guys have been nice, but in the end, it’s a signed deal and they don’t really
care that much – but Soul has been like that for a while…. I think they sold
theirs…… a long time ago ;-)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>With
Primus… I’d pressure them… raise it as an outage… if you aren’t getting the
right feed or something like that, then I would consider it an outage, as these
kinds of things can have cost implications as well as cause degraded
services. Demand they escalate – get as high as you can and anyone who
won’t help you, escalate again if possible and remind them they are in breach
of their support agreements… usually works. Then talk to the sales people
and get the situation fixed if you can… otherwise, buy elsewhere and let
everyone know how you were treated. If Soul only knew how many hundreds
of thousands (if not millions) of dollars of revenue and flow on business they
have lost because of their extremely slack technical and sales support.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>…Skeeve<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Skeeve
Stevens, CEO<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>eintellego
Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><a
href="mailto:skeeve@eintellego.net">skeeve@eintellego.net</a> / <a
href="http://www.eintellego.net">www.eintellego.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Phone:
(+61) 1300 753 383, Fax: (+612) 8572 9954<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Cell
+61 (0)414 753 383 / skype://skeeve<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>NOC,
NOC, who's there?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><b><span lang=EN-US
style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span
lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>
ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net [mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Campbell, Alex<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, 1 November 2008 11:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> ausnog@ausnog.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [AusNOG] Primus BGP support<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>We have recently started buying
transit from Primus in their Melbourne DC. We have come across a BGP
issue with their service and their NOC is telling us that they only do BGP
support 9am-5pm Monday-Friday. I guess they figure that BGP issues are
very friendly and usually only arise during business hours.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>This is especially frustrating
since I actually asked their business development manager during the sales
process “does Primus have a 24x7 NOC we can contact, staffed by engineers
capable of troubleshooting BGP issues etc” and he said yes.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>Has anyone else had similar
experiences with Primus? Does this seem reasonable?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>Alex <o:p></o:p></p>
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