<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Clever CPE is a very interesting approach - why do v4 to v4 NAT at the ISP when you can do v4 to IPv6 at the consumer.<div><div><br></div><div>MMC</div><div><br><div><div>On 01/08/2008, at 2:24 PM, Barrie Hall wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div bgcolor="#ffffff" style="word-wrap: break-word; "><div><font face="Arial" size="2">Very good question.</font></div><div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial" size="2">The thinking around here goes like this (with all the usual "my thoughts, not my employer disclaimer"):</font></div><div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial" size="2">Pre-V4 Exhaustion: Dual stack 4/4 and 6/6 (and maybe 4/6)</font></div><div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial" size="2">As we approach exhaustion: Dual Stack 4/4/4 and 6/6 (and maybe 4/6)</font></div><div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial" size="2">That middle '4' is a bone of great contention which I am not going to let go of. Failed to get it APNIC 25.</font></div><div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial" size="2">Getting into more general terms I think we all need to acknowledge that for 99.99% of our customers, there is nothing in V6 for them. For the industry, it's all about keeping the lights on in world depleted of V4 address space.</font></div><div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial" size="2">My personal view is that, from a customer's perspective, we should not be insisting that they upgrade their home network devices (PC's) to support V6. That implies some clever CPE and thats the real problem. The CPE vendors are behind.</font></div><div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial" size="2">Regards,</font></div><div><font face="Arial" size="2">Barrie</font></div><div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div><blockquote style="padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; margin-right: 0px; "><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; ">----- Original Message -----</div><div style="background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; background-position: initial initial; "><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="mmc@internode.com.au" href="mailto:mmc@internode.com.au">Matthew Moyle-Croft</a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="newton@internode.com.au" href="mailto:newton@internode.com.au">Mark Newton</a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="CChaundy@soulaustralia.com.au" href="mailto:CChaundy@soulaustralia.com.au">Chris Chaundy</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="ausnog@ausnog.net" href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net">ausnog@ausnog.net</a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, August 01, 2008 11:48 AM</div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[AusNOG] What does an IPv6 broadband service look like? WAS Re:IPv4 Exhaustion</div><div><br></div>To change direction a little here to focus this on something other than NAT:<div><br></div><div>One thing that is on my mind and we have internally been struggling with is:</div><div><br></div><div>What DOES an IPv6 broadband service really look and smell like?</div><div><br></div><div>It's not that easy to map our existing ingrained views on an IPv4 broadband service onto a v6 or dual stack world.</div><div><br></div><div>What IP ranges do customers get with IPv6? /128 and NAT/Proxy? /96? /64? /48? etc </div><div>Do they necessarily get a static subnet? Why/Why Not? What implications does it have for your internal IGP?</div><div>If they get a static subnet then do they get to play with reverse mappings?</div><div>How will the transition from v4 to dual stack to some interim step to v6 only go?</div><div><br></div><div>I know a lot of the geeks will go "well, obviously a static /48 with our own controllable reverse mappings" but on a LARGE scale with mostly non-geek home users then what exactly does it look like?</div><div><br></div><div>What do the CPE vendors need to support? What do we need to support? </div><div><br></div><div>MMC</div><div><br><div apple-content-edited="true"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="word-spacing: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; "><div>-- <br>Matthew Moyle-Croft Internode/Agile Peering and Core Networks<br>Level 4, 150 Grenfell Street, Adelaide, SA 5000 Australia<br>Email:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:mmc@internode.com.au">mmc@internode.com.au</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> Web: <a href="http://www.on.net/">http://www.on.net</a><br>Direct: +61-8-8228-2909<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "></span> Mobile: +61-419-900-366<br>Reception: +61-8-8228-2999 Fax: +61-8-8235-6909<br></div></div></span></div><br></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><hr><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AusNOG@ausnog.net">AusNOG@ausnog.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><br></blockquote></div></span></blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>-- <br>Matthew Moyle-Croft Internode/Agile Peering and Core Networks<br>Level 4, 150 Grenfell Street, Adelaide, SA 5000 Australia<br>Email: <a href="mailto:mmc@internode.com.au">mmc@internode.com.au</a> Web: <a href="http://www.on.net/">http://www.on.net</a><br>Direct: +61-8-8228-2909<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span> Mobile: +61-419-900-366<br>Reception: +61-8-8228-2999 Fax: +61-8-8235-6909<br></div></div></span> </div><br></div></div></body></html>