<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>On 01/08/2008, at 1:47 PM, Geoff Huston wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>After a decade of progressive NAT deployment, about the only applications<br>still doing the address in the payload thing are the brain dead dinosaurs. I suspect that the list beings and ends with ftp these days, because if<br>you do it today your novel application is just going to be fatally broken and<br>will never manage to achieve any form of critical mass in broad use.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>SIP does it, so people like us spend big bucks on hosted-nat-traversal devices that "undo" the damage so that consumer VOIP does work. I suspect larger, gruntier version of these are in our future for things other than SIP.</div><div><br></div></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><br>And if you want us to head into the realm of application level relays<br>instead, then thats a future that simply spins us back to the 1980's,<br>in which case those of us who are after some future for the Internet<br>are pretty much stuffed, as that future really is the Death of the Internet (tm).<br><br>So if it is to be a choice, then choose carefully.<br><br></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>As I keep saying "history never repeats, I tell myself before I goto sleep".</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>-- <br>Matthew Moyle-Croft Internode/Agile Peering and Core Networks<br>Level 4, 150 Grenfell Street, Adelaide, SA 5000 Australia<br>Email: <a href="mailto:mmc@internode.com.au">mmc@internode.com.au</a> Web: <a href="http://www.on.net/">http://www.on.net</a><br>Direct: +61-8-8228-2909<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span> Mobile: +61-419-900-366<br>Reception: +61-8-8228-2999 Fax: +61-8-8235-6909<br></div></div></span> </div><br></body></html>