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<TITLE>Re: [AusNOG] IPv4 Exhaustion, APNIC EC, and James is a nice bloke ;-)</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Amen to that!<BR>
<BR>
B<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: ausnog-bounces@ausnog.net <ausnog-bounces@ausnog.net><BR>
To: ausnog@ausnog.net <ausnog@ausnog.net><BR>
Sent: Sat Jul 19 22:19:52 2008<BR>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] IPv4 Exhaustion, APNIC EC, and James is a nice bloke ;-)<BR>
<BR>
> NAT != security.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, but NAT is far better than everything in your house being globally<BR>
addressable - by anybody !<BR>
<BR>
Do you look forward to the day your IP enabled stereo wakes you at 3am<BR>
in the morning with spam that it is playing at 140W RMS because NAT !=<BR>
security ? Consumer devices are cheap therefore will rarely if ever see<BR>
either decent firmware in the first place or regular updates as old<BR>
software is exploited. Why have it as easy as walking address space<BR>
(larger universe in 6 admittedly) to find things that can be targeted.<BR>
<BR>
Can you imagine a world now (the IPv4 world) where every rancid pile of<BR>
plastic and silicon from a cheap manufacturer in the home was globally<BR>
addressable ? In warfare do you want to be bullet proof (like a tank -<BR>
not very bullet proof and they are at the highest state of art) or<BR>
hidden ? If they can't see you they can't shoot you !<BR>
<BR>
Now watch the zealots :-)<BR>
<BR>
SB<BR>
<BR>
> > I really don't understand the anti-NAT zealots. It's like they want<BR>
> to take all of the things we've learned about giving public IPs to<BR>
> workstations (DCOM/RPC/NetBios exploits) and repeat them, all over<BR>
> again. No NAT = bad mmkay?<BR>
> > ________________________________________<BR>
> > From: ausnog-bounces@ausnog.net [ausnog-bounces@ausnog.net] On<BR>
Behalf<BR>
> Of Matthew Moyle-Croft [mmc@internode.com.au]<BR>
> > Sent: Friday, 18 July 2008 12:45 PM<BR>
> > To: Noel Butler<BR>
> > Cc: ausnog@ausnog.net<BR>
> > Subject: Re: [AusNOG] IPv4 Exhaustion, APNIC EC, and James is a nice<BR>
> bloke ; -)<BR>
> ><BR>
> > My point was more that I've got an IPv4 /24 and use 10 addresses.<BR>
> I've got an IPv6 /56 and use 6 addresses (my media players etc don't<BR>
do<BR>
> v6 yet). The density of allocation has decreased by <insert<BR>
> depressingly large number> (even if I just had a /64 for home) just to<BR>
> appease the anti-NAT zealots worshipping at the altar of the RFC2462<BR>
> god. I hope their puny stateful firewalls let the evil spirits into<BR>
> their networks and corrupt their virgin servers.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > MMC<BR>
> ><BR>
> > PS. History never repeats, I tell myself before I goto sleep.<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Noel Butler wrote:<BR>
> > this adds further proof about abuse and waste of existing IP<BR>
> resources, at least MMC is man enough to admit he's one of the guilty.<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > On Fri, 2008-07-18 at 10:32, Matthew Moyle-Croft wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Free != Allocatable.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > ie. I have an (ancient) class C of my own at home. I use about 10<BR>
> > addresses all up. So there are, let's call it 244 free.<BR>
> > But no one can get an allocation out of that or, for example,<BR>
Apple's<BR>
> /8.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > MMC<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > ________________________________<BR>
> ><BR>
> > _______________________________________________<BR>
> > AusNOG mailing list<BR>
> > AusNOG@ausnog.net<<A HREF="mailto:AusNOG@ausnog.net">mailto:AusNOG@ausnog.net</A>><BR>
> > <A HREF="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</A><BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > --<BR>
> > Matthew Moyle-Croft Internode/Agile Peering and Core Networks<BR>
> > Level 4, 150 Grenfell Street, Adelaide, SA 5000 Australia<BR>
> > Email: mmc@internode.com.au<<A HREF="mailto:mmc@internode.com.au">mailto:mmc@internode.com.au</A>> Web:<BR>
> <A HREF="http://www.on.net">http://www.on.net</A><BR>
> > Direct: +61-8-8228-2909 Mobile: +61-419-900-366<BR>
> > Reception: +61-8-8228-2999 Fax: +61-8-8235-6909<BR>
> ><BR>
> > _______________________________________________<BR>
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> ><BR>
><BR>
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