[AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance - 15th
Sam Silvester
sam.silvester at gmail.com
Fri Aug 11 09:22:55 EST 2017
Hi John,
There's nothing about an ATS that makes it generally 'large' or small
relative to an STS.
Here's a 1RU, 10A ATS:
http://www.apc.com/shop/au/en/products/RACK-ATS-10A-230V-12A-208V-C14-IN-12-C13-OUT/P-AP7721
I've got many dozen of these deployed in racks right by single corded
equipment right now, and I often recommend them to customers who need to
put single corded equipment on both the A and B feed to their rack.
Meanwhile, to pick an example at one of our data centres, we have use a
1500A three phase ATS on the inputs to our UPS.
Cheers,
Sam
On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 3:54 AM, John Duffin <jduffin at uptimeinstitute.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Please do not take this as expert Electrical Engineering advice!
>
> A quick word on ATS/STS.
>
> ATS are essentially automated mechanical switches. They can “Make Before
> Break” or they can “Break Before Make” depending on their design and
> whichever arrangement is used is dictated by the Electrical Design as
> determined by the Electrical Engineer. Case and Situation Specific, I
> would warn against generalising. STS are Solid State devices which have no
> moving parts. There are reasons why you would use either and it is best
> not to think of them as interchangeable.
>
> ATS will normally live in a DC deep in the Electrical Distribution, if you
> don’t go to the Power Rooms, you many never see one. STS tends to have
> smaller current carrying capacity and live nearer the IT. For the case of
> Single Cord Equipment in a Dual Cord DC then, if it’s odd items in a rack,
> Rack Mount STS are usable. If there’s lots of odd Single Cord Equipment
> within a DC then a 3rd Supply can be considered but then you have to wonder
> why the customer is paying for Dual Cord in the first place…
>
> The point of a real Dual Cord Environment is that Operators like NextDC,
> can do routine maintenance work and still maintain at least one supply to
> the IT load. You need to consider single cord equipment in that context
> and, under the SLA, It is probably going be your problem to keep it
> powered, not theirs…
>
> John
>
> On 10/8/17, 4:26 PM, "AusNOG on behalf of ausnog-request at lists.ausnog.net"
> <ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net on behalf of ausnog-request at lists.ausnog.
> net> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance - 15th
> August (Sam Silvester)
> 2. Re: NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance -, 15th
> August (Peter Tiggerdine)
> 3. Re: NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance -, 15th
> August (Chad Kelly)
> 4. Re: NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance - 15th
> August (James Hodgkinson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 15:38:14 +0930
> From: Sam Silvester <sam.silvester at gmail.com>
> To: James Braunegg <james.braunegg at micron21.com>
> Cc: "ausnog at lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance -
> 15th August
> Message-ID:
> <CAAAhk6-CMRyG2xY0Q7i0-dZ-=pOcC_PspDmLeGEs23jpP_R9bg at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi James,
>
> A quick Google tells me APC ATS are break before make, so that is
> certainly
> not the defining feature of an ATS vs. STS.
>
> For cost effective provision of a 'C feed' in racks to catch those
> pesky
> single corded devices you just can't live without I see no reason at
> all to
> go to the expense of typically larger and more expensive STS, happy to
> learn more though.
>
> Sam
>
>
>
> On Thursday, 10 August 2017, James Braunegg <
> james.braunegg at micron21.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Dear All
> >
> >
> >
> > Anyone with single power supply devices please do not look at
> getting an
> > ATS, get a STS !!!
> >
> >
> >
> > *Short version*
> >
> >
> >
> > ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch) will typically break power before it
> > makes, thus the connected device could reboot !!
> >
> >
> >
> > STS (Static Transfer Switch) will make power before it breaks,
> providing
> > no break to the power !
> >
> >
> >
> > An example of a recommended device is below
> >
> >
> >
> > https://www.vertivco.com/en-asia/products-catalog/
> > critical-power/power-transfer-switches/liebert-lts-63-to-400a/
> >
> >
> >
> > Kindest Regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > *James Braunegg*
> >
> > [image: cid:image001.png at 01D280A4.01865B60]
> >
> > 1300 769 972 / 0488 997 207 <1300%20769%20972>
> >
> > *james at micron21.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','james at micron21.com
> ');>*
> >
> > www.micron21.com/
> >
> > [image: cid:image002.png at 01D280A4.01865B60] <
> http://www.micron21.com/>
> >
> > [image: cid:image003.png at 01D280A4.01865B60]
> > <https://www.facebook.com/micron21/>
> >
> > [image: cid:image004.png at 01D280A4.01865B60] <
> https://twitter.com/micron21>
> >
> > Follow us on Twitter <https://twitter.com/micron21> for important
> service
> > and system updates.
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net
> > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net');>]
> *On
> > Behalf Of *Matthew Smee
> > *Sent:* Thursday, 10 August 2017 12:00 PM
> > *To:* ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
> > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ausnog at lists.ausnog.net');>
> > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
> Maintenance -
> > 15th August
> >
> >
> >
> > +1
> >
> > Every DC agreement I?ve seen (3) have mentioned that you are
> responsible
> > for supplying it with power and they aren?t responsible if it loses
> power
> > (i.e. use an ATS).
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net
> > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net');>]
> *On
> > Behalf Of *Sam Silvester
> > *Sent:* Thursday, 10 August 2017 10:14 AM
> > *To:* Shaun McGuane <shaun at rackcentral.com
> > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','shaun at rackcentral.com');>>
> > *Cc:* ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
> > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ausnog at lists.ausnog.net');>
> > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
> Maintenance -
> > 15th August
> >
> >
> >
> > If you have single fed equipment in your rack that needs planning
> before
> > it can be shut down, do you not run a totally forseeable and
> preventable
> > risk then should that one feed trip?
> >
> >
> >
> > This is what ATS are for.
> >
> >
> >
> > Sam
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, 10 August 2017, Shaun McGuane <shaun at rackcentral.com
> > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','shaun at rackcentral.com');>> wrote:
> >
> > HI Simon,
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you for your input to the list.
> >
> >
> >
> > While you may have provided notifications well in advance, your
> schedule
> > provided has been changed multiple times and this creates confusion.
> >
> > Without asking for further clarification last night I would never
> have
> > received the following updated schedule from Craig Armstrong today.
> >
> >
> >
> > Data Hall 2 ? B feed (west/blue PDU side) Tuesday 15th Aug, A feed
> has
> > been pushed back to later date around November, you will receive
> official
> > notice once new date confirmed.
> >
> > Data Hall 3 ?A and B feed has been pushed back to later date around
> > October/November, you will receive official notice once new date
> confirmed.
> >
> > Data Hall 4 ?A and B feed has been pushed back to later date around
> > October/November, you will receive official notice once new date
> confirmed.
> >
> >
> >
> > From the latest update today, It appears that most of the works are
> being
> > postponed for the time being
> >
> >
> >
> > Not all devices within racks support 2 feeds and planning is
> involved with
> > these devices, which is why it is crucial to receive accurate
> information
> > about any pending outages or upgrades
> > to the NextDC DataCentres which affect services.
> >
> >
> >
> > Additionally, I have not received these updates via the normal NextDC
> > E-Mail communication method, so I am sure other customers will be
> wondering
> > whats happening too.
> >
> >
> >
> > Happy to have a conversation offline about this feel free to give me
> a
> > call on my mobile.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Shaun
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf
> Of *Simon
> > Cooper
> > *Sent:* Thursday, 10 August 2017 8:39 AM
> > *To:* ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
> > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
> Maintenance -
> > 15th August
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks guys, appreciate the feedback.
> >
> >
> >
> > At NEXTDC we work very hard to keep critical infrastructure
> maintenance
> > that impacts racks or the environment within the data hall to an
> absolute
> > minimum.
> >
> >
> >
> > However, some works are required to happen from time to time by law
> and
> > one of those activities is a de-energisation and inspection of each
> of our
> > major switchboards. This is all about ensuring that the electrical
> system
> > is safe, and is an unavoidable piece of work. Rightly so.
> >
> >
> >
> > Every rack in a NEXTDC data centre has 2N power feeds offered to it,
> and
> > we highly recommend that they are used for every device in the
> rack. This
> > occasional maintenance is one of the many reasons we provide this
> > capability. Any device using the 2N supplies (aka A & B feeds) will
> simply
> > see its power swing from one feed to the other. Any rack that is
> drawing
> > no more that its contracted power level will have no issue when all
> devices
> > move from A to B or vice versa.
> >
> >
> >
> > Our notifications were made well in advance, as we want to give
> customers
> > time to consider the management of these works and we don't assume
> that
> > every rack is perfectly deployed: We are here 24/7 to assist
> customers
> > with rack inspections or specific circuit down tests or maybe a
> controlled
> > move prior to the day (e.g. for devices that are single fed).
> >
> >
> >
> > Also, as we work though those discussions with customers we
> understand the
> > timing in relation to their businesses, and we work very hard to
> coordinate
> > schedules despite each switch board supporting many different
> customers and
> > customer instances across the data centre. Occasionally that means
> we have
> > to make a difficult decisions which may result in schedule changes.
> When
> > that does happen, we do not compromise our notification periods.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'll be happy to discuss these works with anyone - probably best
> offline
> > or on the phone - but trust me when I say we are doing our absolute
> best to
> > keep your data centre operating safely and reliably for many years
> to come.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Simon
> >
> > COO, NEXTDC
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > *From:* nathan at nightsys.net
> > *Sent:* Thu, 10 Aug 2017 05:39:02 +1000
> > *To:* shaun at rackcentral.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
> Maintenance -
> > 15th August
> >
> > This seems reasonable? As long as no single Data Hall has both A and
> B
> > feeds removed simultaneously, that seems normal. Doing B on Hall 2
> and A on
> > Hall 3 on the same day does seem slightly adventurous, but not
> entirely
> > unreasonable (mostly in terms of if something goes bad in both,
> staff get
> > stretched thin remediating issues).
> >
> >
> >
> > A and B feeds are designed to provide redundancy to equipment,
> allowing
> > one feed to fail and systems to continue on the other. Anything
> mission
> > critical should be able to draw from either feed as required (dual
> PSU),
> > and if there is a power deficit on one feed (causing circuits to
> trip),
> > that would imply the circuits are incorrectly sized?
> >
> >
> >
> > In addition, anything mission critical with a single power supply
> would be
> > on an ATS you would assume, or a pair of equivalent devices
> installed with
> > one on each rail?
> >
> >
> >
> > Things break in datacentres, planned maintenance happens sometimes,
> better
> > than no maintenance at all :) The fact they are notifying you is
> better
> > than not, and it being scheduled is probably still better than
> unscheduled
> > :) (easier to ensure sufficient staffing to keep a close eye on
> things)
> >
> >
> >
> > Nathan.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Shaun McGuane <shaun at rackcentral.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > Here is the entire scheduled maintenance windows for all the halls we
> > occupy.
> >
> >
> >
> > DataHall 2
> >
> > A Feed - Tuesday 8th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10.
> > B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10.
> >
> >
> >
> > DataHall 3
> >
> > A Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10
> > B Feed - Monday 14th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10
> >
> >
> >
> > DataHall 4
> >
> > B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10.
> >
> >
> >
> > ? So looks like no power on 3 data halls B feeds on the same
> day.
> >
> > ? Data Hall 2 was scheduled for A rail on the 8th of August
> but
> > has been re-scheduled with no new date of works.
> >
> > ? Data Hall 3 was scheduled for A rail on the
> >
> >
> >
> > Problem is that I have 3x separate dates on 3 separate e-mails for
> Data
> > Hall 3 and I have requested a revised clarification
> >
> > Just now on the above as there has already been re-schedules for
> Data Hall
> > 2 and 3.
> >
> >
> >
> > This feels like it?s going sideways and it has not even started.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Shaun
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf
> Of *Murat
> > Sener
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 3:20 PM
> > *To:* Matthew VK3EVL <hitman at itglowz.com>; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
> >
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
> Maintenance -
> > 15th August
> >
> >
> >
> > We have been told only Feed B in Data hall 2 will be effected as per
> > original schedule and Feed A is yet to be rescheduled.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *Murat Sener* Datacentre Manager
> >
> > *PREMIER* Technology Solutions
> > *P. *1300 76 76 48 *F. *1300 76 76 49 *M. *0450 604 350
> >
> >
> >
> > *How am I doing? Let us know!*
> > SIMPLY CLICK ON A FACE TO GIVE FEEDBACK
> >
> > *GREAT*
> >
> > *AVERAGE*
> >
> > *BAD*
> >
> > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/ZXg4BxUQRobS3?domain=crewhu.com>
> >
> > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/m4kKB9UQ4mAS1?domain=crewhu.com>
> >
> > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/krZGBXug3DJiw?domain=crewhu.com>
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf
> Of *Matthew
> > VK3EVL
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 3:13 PM
> > *To:* ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
> > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
> Maintenance -
> > 15th August
> >
> >
> >
> > What about both feeds happening on the same day at the same time?
> >
> >
> >
> > On 9/08/2017 2:55 PM, Shaun McGuane wrote:
> >
> > HI Damien,
> >
> >
> >
> > My apologies that?s correct ? but isn?t anyone concerned about the
> works
> > being completed during business hours?
> >
> > What about increased loading of the active rail once one of them is
> > switched off for these works?
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Shaun
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Damien Gardner Jnr [mailto:rendrag at rendrag.net]
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 2:39 PM
> > *To:* <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net> <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>; Shaun
> McGuane
> > <shaun at rackcentral.com>
> > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
> Maintenance -
> > 15th August
> >
> >
> >
> > It says 7am -> 4pm in what you quoted? (UTC+10 is AEST)
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 at 2:36 pm, Shaun McGuane <shaun at rackcentral.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > HI Noggers,
> >
> >
> >
> > Has anyone seen this scheduled maintenance notification happening
> next
> > week?
> >
> > They maybe upgrading feeds or boards throughout the datacentre ? has
> > everyone seen this notification of works?
> >
> > It appears to be happening starting 5PM through to 2AM AEST for all
> > Datahalls on the same date.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *WHAT:*
> > NEXTDC M1 Melbourne data centre, with the assistance of specialist
> > contractors, will conduct offline preventative electrical
> maintenance work
> > on high-voltage and low-voltage main isolators. This will affect A
> and B
> > feeds to the racks in Data Hall 2/3/4 on the 15th of August.
> >
> > *WHEN:*
> > A Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10.
> > B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10.
> >
> > *HOW AM I AFFECTED?*
> > Due to the nature of the work a single feed will be removed as per
> the
> > dates and times above. We recommend that customers balance the power
> > between both power rails to minimise impact during this period. If
> you have
> > single feed devices we recommend you:
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Shaun
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > AusNOG mailing list
> > AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
> > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/pLG0B1fQrxkS1?domain=
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> >
> > --
> >
> > Damien Gardner Jnr
> > VK2TDG. Dip EE. GradIEAust
> > rendrag at rendrag.net - http://www.rendrag.net/
> > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/Ld1wBKUl1AwIG?domain=rendrag.net>
> > --
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> >
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 16:11:48 +1000
> From: Peter Tiggerdine <ptiggerdine at gmail.com>
> To: Chad Kelly <chad at cpkws.com.au>
> Cc: "ausnog at lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>,
> "ausnog-request at lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog-request at lists.ausnog.net
> >
> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance
> -, 15th August
> Message-ID:
> <CAHgLLqb789cBEYY50QyFjGc1Zr4sWbc3nXkG_AVnsg6uCO_1SA at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> disagree.
>
> Outside of business hours costs more with limited staff around to
> assist. They're doing you a favour by doing this because if your PSU
> fails on server, you'll have time raise tickets with vendor and get
> same day resolution.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Tiggerdine
>
> GPG Fingerprint: 2A3F EA19 F6C2 93C1 411D 5AB2 D5A8 E8A8 0E74 6127
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Chad Kelly <chad at cpkws.com.au> wrote:
> >
> > Hmm yes actually deciding to do this during business hours does
> appear to be
> > an odd choice, even with two PSU in the server, they would be better
> off
> > doing this out of business hours I would of thought.
> > Regards Chad.
> >
> >
> > On 8/10/2017 2:56 PM, Nathan Brookfield wrote:
> >>
> >> Chad,
> >>
> >> That's all well and good but when you're paying a premium price for
> >> services of this fashion you expect a certain level of service.
> There is a
> >> risk no matter what when switching from power supplies taking extra
> load
> >> they would not usually take as well as swing load issues with PDU's.
> >>
> >> I completely agree with your sentiment but the risk is not to be
> ignored
> >> especially during those times.
> >>
> >> Kindest Regards,
> >> Nathan Brookfield (VK2NAB)
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of
> Chad
> >> Kelly
> >> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 2:54 PM
> >> To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net; ausnog-request at lists.ausnog.net
> >> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
> Maintenance -,
> >> 15th August
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 8/10/2017 10:13 AM, ausnog-request at lists.ausnog.net wrote:
> >>>
> >>> From the latest update today, It appears that most of the works
> are
> >>> being postponed for the time being
> >>>
> >>> Not all devices within racks support 2 feeds and planning is
> involved
> >>> with these devices, which is why it is crucial to receive accurate
> >>> information about any pending outages or upgrades to the NextDC
> DataCentres
> >>> which affect services.
> >>
> >> If these services are mission critical then you really should have
> duel
> >> PSU units, so that when one feed gets taken offline the equipment
> >> automatically switches to the other feed. They won't just
> disconnect both
> >> feeds at once because that would be stupid and if the entire DC was
> offline
> >> for too much time then that would put the owners in a rather awkward
> >> situation legally, as after say 8 or 10 hours of downtime it
> wouldn't be
> >> good for the owners lets put it that way.
> >> If the single PSU units are a part of a customers co-located
> equipment
> >> then really your terms of service agreement should exclude
> liability under
> >> your maintenance clauses.
> >> I don't understand why anyone would be using single PSU equipment
> in a DC
> >> environment now a days when you can buy refurbished servers that
> come with
> >> two PSU as standard even when you buy them without raid.
> >> Also for anything that is really really mission critical you should
> have
> >> it hosted in multiple datacentres anyway so if something stupid
> does happen
> >> that you can't control you at least still have services online as
> the load
> >> balanced services would just switch.
> >> Regards Chad.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Chad Kelly
> >> Manager
> >> CPK Web Services
> >> Phone 03 5273 0246
> >> Web www.cpkws.com.au
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> AusNOG mailing list
> >> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
> >
> >
> > --
> > Chad Kelly
> > Manager
> > CPK Web Services
> > Phone 03 5273 0246
> > Web www.cpkws.com.au
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > AusNOG mailing list
> > AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 16:41:08 +1000
> From: Chad Kelly <chad at cpkws.com.au>
> To: Peter Tiggerdine <ptiggerdine at gmail.com>
> Cc: "ausnog at lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>,
> "ausnog-request at lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog-request at lists.ausnog.net
> >
> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance
> -, 15th August
> Message-ID: <945c1e17-7406-e4d3-3340-bee89f4d586b at cpkws.com.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Yeah bit of a dammed if you do, dammed if you don't type situation.
>
>
>
> On 8/10/2017 4:11 PM, Peter Tiggerdine wrote:
> > disagree.
> >
> > Outside of business hours costs more with limited staff around to
> > assist. They're doing you a favour by doing this because if your PSU
> > fails on server, you'll have time raise tickets with vendor and get
> > same day resolution.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Peter Tiggerdine
> >
> > GPG Fingerprint: 2A3F EA19 F6C2 93C1 411D 5AB2 D5A8 E8A8 0E74 6127
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Chad Kelly <chad at cpkws.com.au>
> wrote:
> >> Hmm yes actually deciding to do this during business hours does
> appear to be
> >> an odd choice, even with two PSU in the server, they would be
> better off
> >> doing this out of business hours I would of thought.
> >> Regards Chad.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 8/10/2017 2:56 PM, Nathan Brookfield wrote:
> >>> Chad,
> >>>
> >>> That's all well and good but when you're paying a premium price for
> >>> services of this fashion you expect a certain level of service.
> There is a
> >>> risk no matter what when switching from power supplies taking
> extra load
> >>> they would not usually take as well as swing load issues with
> PDU's.
> >>>
> >>> I completely agree with your sentiment but the risk is not to be
> ignored
> >>> especially during those times.
> >>>
> >>> Kindest Regards,
> >>> Nathan Brookfield (VK2NAB)
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf
> Of Chad
> >>> Kelly
> >>> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 2:54 PM
> >>> To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net; ausnog-request at lists.ausnog.net
> >>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
> Maintenance -,
> >>> 15th August
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 8/10/2017 10:13 AM, ausnog-request at lists.ausnog.net wrote:
> >>>> From the latest update today, It appears that most of the
> works are
> >>>> being postponed for the time being
> >>>>
> >>>> Not all devices within racks support 2 feeds and planning is
> involved
> >>>> with these devices, which is why it is crucial to receive accurate
> >>>> information about any pending outages or upgrades to the NextDC
> DataCentres
> >>>> which affect services.
> >>> If these services are mission critical then you really should have
> duel
> >>> PSU units, so that when one feed gets taken offline the equipment
> >>> automatically switches to the other feed. They won't just
> disconnect both
> >>> feeds at once because that would be stupid and if the entire DC
> was offline
> >>> for too much time then that would put the owners in a rather
> awkward
> >>> situation legally, as after say 8 or 10 hours of downtime it
> wouldn't be
> >>> good for the owners lets put it that way.
> >>> If the single PSU units are a part of a customers co-located
> equipment
> >>> then really your terms of service agreement should exclude
> liability under
> >>> your maintenance clauses.
> >>> I don't understand why anyone would be using single PSU equipment
> in a DC
> >>> environment now a days when you can buy refurbished servers that
> come with
> >>> two PSU as standard even when you buy them without raid.
> >>> Also for anything that is really really mission critical you
> should have
> >>> it hosted in multiple datacentres anyway so if something stupid
> does happen
> >>> that you can't control you at least still have services online as
> the load
> >>> balanced services would just switch.
> >>> Regards Chad.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Chad Kelly
> >>> Manager
> >>> CPK Web Services
> >>> Phone 03 5273 0246
> >>> Web www.cpkws.com.au
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> AusNOG mailing list
> >>> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> >>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
> >>
> >> --
> >> Chad Kelly
> >> Manager
> >> CPK Web Services
> >> Phone 03 5273 0246
> >> Web www.cpkws.com.au
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> AusNOG mailing list
> >> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>
> --
> Chad Kelly
> Manager
> CPK Web Services
> Phone 03 5273 0246
> Web www.cpkws.com.au
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:26:45 +1000
> From: James Hodgkinson <yaleman at ricetek.net>
> To: Sam Silvester <sam.silvester at gmail.com>, Jared Hirst
> <jared.hirst at serversaustralia.com.au>
> Cc: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance -
> 15th August
> Message-ID:
> <1502353605.3647578.1068981528.3F4D0403 at webmail.
> messagingengine.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> We have a tech on site tomorrow morning in Brisbane to do live works on
> a major DC panel, they need a look out with a torch, insulating matting
> and a few other things but it's legal.
> James
>
>
> On Thu, 10 Aug 2017, at 16:04, Sam Silvester wrote:
> > I also am unaware of such a law. Simon, can you advise?
> >
> > I'm told in QLD that live works are not permitted, but I am in SA so
> I
> > have not really bothered too much to check if that is hearsay or
> true.>
> > On Thursday, 10 August 2017, Jared Hirst
> > <jared.hirst at serversaustralia.com.au> wrote:>>
> >> Hi Simon,
> >>
> >> Maybe it could be helpful to the Ausnog list to point us to that law
> >> you refer too?>>
> >> As I personally have never heard or seen this done in any DC in
> >> Australia, or the world in the past 15 years I have been housing
> gear
> >> in Data Centres.>>
> >> I agree that gear should have 2N, and it doesn?t affect me, but
> there
> >> are people that have equipment that have single fed devices, and I
> >> believe you don?t allow self installed STS devices to be installed?
> I
> >> could be wrong.>>
> >> In any case, it would be interesting to see the law the requires you
> >> to shut down boards.>>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Jared Hirst
> >> Servers Australia Pty Ltd
> >> Phone: +61 2 8115 8801
> >> Email: jared.hirst at serversaustralia.com.au
> >>
> >> *From:* AusNOG <ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net> on behalf of Simon
> >> Cooper <spgc at inbox.com> *Sent:* Thursday, August 10, 2017 8:39:13
> AM
> >> *To:* ausnog at lists.ausnog.net *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC
> >> Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance - 15th August>>
> >> Thanks guys, appreciate the feedback.
> >>
> >> At NEXTDC we work very hard to keep critical infrastructure
> >> maintenance that impacts racks or the environment within the data
> >> hall to an absolute minimum.>>
> >> However, some works are required to happen from time to time by law
> >> and one of those activities is a de-energisation and inspection of
> >> each of our major switchboards. This is all about ensuring that the
> >> electrical system is safe, and is an unavoidable piece of work.
> >> Rightly so.>>
> >> Every rack in a NEXTDC data centre has 2N power feeds offered to it,
> >> and we highly recommend that they are used for every device in the
> >> rack. This occasional maintenance is one of the many reasons we
> >> provide this capability. Any device using the 2N supplies (aka A &
> B
> >> feeds) will simply see its power swing from one feed to the other.
> >> Any rack that is drawing no more that its contracted power level
> will
> >> have no issue when all devices move from A to B or vice versa.>>
> >> Our notifications were made well in advance, as we want to give
> >> customers time to consider the management of these works and we
> don't
> >> assume that every rack is perfectly deployed: We are here 24/7 to
> >> assist customers with rack inspections or specific circuit down
> tests
> >> or maybe a controlled move prior to the day (e.g. for devices that
> >> are single fed).>>
> >> Also, as we work though those discussions with customers we
> >> understand the timing in relation to their businesses, and we work
> >> very hard to coordinate schedules despite each switch board
> >> supporting many different customers and customer instances across
> the
> >> data centre. Occasionally that means we have to make a difficult
> >> decisions which may result in schedule changes. When that does
> >> happen, we do not compromise our notification periods.>>
> >> I'll be happy to discuss these works with anyone - probably best
> >> offline or on the phone - but trust me when I say we are doing our
> >> absolute best to keep your data centre operating safely and reliably
> >> for many years to come.>>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Simon
> >> COO, NEXTDC
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> *From:* nathan at nightsys.net
> >>> *Sent:* Thu, 10 Aug 2017 05:39:02 +1000
> >>> *To:* shaun at rackcentral.com
> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
> >>> Maintenance - 15th August>>>
> >>> This seems reasonable? As long as no single Data Hall has both A
> and
> >>> B feeds removed simultaneously, that seems normal. Doing B on Hall
> 2
> >>> and A on Hall 3 on the same day does seem slightly adventurous, but
> >>> not entirely unreasonable (mostly in terms of if something goes bad
> >>> in both, staff get stretched thin remediating issues).>>>
> >>> A and B feeds are designed to provide redundancy to equipment,
> >>> allowing one feed to fail and systems to continue on the other.
> >>> Anything mission critical should be able to draw from either feed
> as
> >>> required (dual PSU), and if there is a power deficit on one feed
> >>> (causing circuits to trip), that would imply the circuits are
> >>> incorrectly sized?>>>
> >>> In addition, anything mission critical with a single power supply
> >>> would be on an ATS you would assume, or a pair of equivalent
> devices
> >>> installed with one on each rail?>>>
> >>> Things break in datacentres, planned maintenance happens sometimes,
> >>> better than no maintenance at all :) The fact they are notifying
> you
> >>> is better than not, and it being scheduled is probably still better
> >>> than unscheduled :) (easier to ensure sufficient staffing to keep a
> >>> close eye on things)>>>
> >>> Nathan.
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Shaun McGuane
> >>> <shaun at rackcentral.com> wrote:>>>
> >>>> Here is the entire scheduled maintenance windows for all the halls
> >>>> we occupy.____>>>> __ __
>
>
> >>>> DataHall 2____
>
>
> >>>> A Feed - Tuesday 8th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC
> +10.
> >>>> B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC
> >>>> +10.____>>>> __ __
>
>
> >>>> DataHall 3____
>
>
> >>>> A Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC
> +10
> >>>> B Feed - Monday 14th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC
> >>>> +10____>>>> __ __
>
>
> >>>> DataHall 4____
>
>
> >>>>
> >>>> B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC
> >>>> +10.____>>>> __ __
>
>
> >>>>
> >>>> __? __So looks like no power on 3 data halls B feeds on
> the
> >>>> same day. ____>>>> __? __Data Hall 2 was scheduled for A
> rail on the 8th of
> >>>> August but has been re-scheduled with no new date of
> works.____>>>> __? __Data Hall 3 was scheduled for A rail on the
> ____
>
>
> >>>> __ __
>
>
> >>>> Problem is that I have 3x separate dates on 3 separate e-mails for
> >>>> Data Hall 3 and I have requested a revised clarification ____>>>>
> Just now on the above as there has already been re-schedules for
> >>>> Data Hall 2 and 3.____>>>> __ __
>
>
> >>>> This feels like it?s going sideways and it has not even
> >>>> started.____>>>> __ __
>
>
> >>>> Regards____
>
>
> >>>> Shaun____
>
>
> >>>> __ __
>
>
> >>>> __ __
>
>
> >>>> *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] *On
> Behalf
> >>>> Of *Murat Sener *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 3:20 PM *To:*
> >>>> Matthew VK3EVL <hitman at itglowz.com>; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>>>>
> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
> >>>> Maintenance - 15th August____>>>>
>
>
> >>>> __ __
>
>
> >>>> We have been told only Feed B in Data hall 2 will be effected as
> >>>> per original schedule and Feed A is yet to be
> rescheduled.____>>>> __ __
>
>
> >>>> __ __
>
>
> >>>> __ __
>
>
> >>>> ____
>
>
> >>>> *Murat Sener* Datacentre Manager____
>
>
> >>>> *PREMIER* Technology Solutions *P. *1300 76 76 48 *F. *1300 76
> >>>> 76 49 *M. *0450 604 350 ____>>>> __ __
>
>
> >>>> *How am I doing? Let us know!* SIMPLY CLICK ON A FACE TO GIVE
> >>>> FEEDBACK ____>>>> *GREAT____*
>
>
> >>>> *AVERAGE____*
>
>
> >>>> *BAD____*
>
>
> >>>> ____
>
>
> >>>> ____
>
>
> >>>> ____
>
>
> >>>> __ __
>
>
> >>>> *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] *On
> Behalf
> >>>> Of *Matthew VK3EVL *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 3:13 PM *To:*
> >>>> ausnog at lists.ausnog.net *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne
> -
> >>>> Scheduled Power Maintenance - 15th August____>>>> __ __
>
>
> >>>> What about both feeds happening on the same day at the same
> >>>> time?____>>>> __ __
>
>
> >>>> On 9/08/2017 2:55 PM, Shaun McGuane wrote:____
>
>
> >>>>> HI Damien,____
>
>
> >>>>> ____
>
>
> >>>>> My apologies that?s correct ? but isn?t anyone concerned about
> the
> >>>>> works being completed during business hours?____>>>>> What about
> increased loading of the active rail once one of them
> >>>>> is switched off for these works?____>>>>> ____
>
>
> >>>>> Regards____
>
>
> >>>>> Shaun____
>
>
> >>>>> ____
>
>
> >>>>> ____
>
>
> >>>>> *From:* Damien Gardner Jnr [mailto:rendrag at rendrag.net] *Sent:*
> >>>>> Wednesday, 9 August 2017 2:39 PM *To:* <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
> >>>>> <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>; Shaun McGuane <shaun at rackcentral.com>
> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
> >>>>> Maintenance - 15th August____>>>>> ____
>
>
> >>>>> It says 7am -> 4pm in what you quoted? (UTC+10 is AEST)____
>
>
> >>>>> ____
>
>
> >>>>> On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 at 2:36 pm, Shaun McGuane
> >>>>> <shaun at rackcentral.com> wrote:____>>>>>> HI Noggers,____
>
>
> >>>>>> ____
>
>
> >>>>>> Has anyone seen this scheduled maintenance notification
> happening
> >>>>>> next week?____>>>>>> They maybe upgrading feeds or boards
> throughout the datacentre ?
> >>>>>> has everyone seen this notification of works?____>>>>>> It
> appears to be happening starting 5PM through to 2AM AEST for
> >>>>>> all Datahalls on the same date.____>>>>>> ____
>
>
> >>>>>> ____
>
>
> >>>>>> *WHAT:*
> >>>>>> NEXTDC M1 Melbourne data centre, with the assistance of
> >>>>>> specialist contractors, will conduct offline preventative
> >>>>>> electrical maintenance work on high-voltage and low-voltage main
> >>>>>> isolators. This will affect A and B feeds to the racks in Data
> >>>>>> Hall 2/3/4 on the 15th of August.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> *WHEN:* A Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until
> >>>>>> 16:00 UTC +10. B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10
> >>>>>> until 16:00 UTC +10.>>>>>>
> >>>>>> *HOW AM I AFFECTED?* Due to the nature of the work a single feed
> >>>>>> will be removed as per the dates and times above. We recommend
> >>>>>> that customers balance the power between both power rails to
> >>>>>> minimise impact during this period. If you have single feed
> >>>>>> devices we recommend you:____>>>>>> ____
>
>
> >>>>>> Regards____
>
>
> >>>>>> Shaun____
>
>
> >>>>>> ____
>
>
> >>>>>> ____
>
>
> >>>>>> ____
>
>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> AusNOG mailing list
> >>>>>> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> >>>>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog____
>
>
> >>>>> -- ____
>
>
> >>>>> Damien Gardner Jnr
> >>>>> VK2TDG. Dip EE. GradIEAust
> >>>>> rendrag at rendrag.net - http://www.rendrag.net/_
> _--
> >>>>> We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
> >>>>> We ran to the sounds of thunder.
> >>>>> We danced among the lightning bolts,
> >>>>> and tore the world asunder____
>
>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ____
>
>
> >>>>> ___________________________________________________
> >>>>> AusNOG mailing list____ AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net____
> >>>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog____>>>> __ __
>
>
> >>>>
> >>>> MESSAGE PROTECTED BY *PREMIER TECHNOLOGY SOLUTIONS*[1] - POWERED
> >>>> BY *MAILGUARD*[2]. Report this message as spam[3]
> >>>> ____>>>>
> >>>> MESSAGE PROTECTED BY *PREMIER TECHNOLOGY SOLUTIONS*[4] - POWERED
> >>>> BY *MAILGUARD*[5].
> >>>> ____>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> AusNOG mailing list
> >>>> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> >>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
> >>>>
> > _________________________________________________
> > AusNOG mailing list
> > AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>
>
> Links:
>
> 1. http://www.premiertech.com.au
> 2. http://www.mailguard.com.au/mg
> 3. https://console.mailguard.com.au/ras/1RqQHQIE5J/
> 6DWUZjiMDnlts7JYyCLNB3/0
> 4. http://www.premiertech.com.au
> 5. http://www.mailguard.com.au/mg
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