[AusNOG] Legal Challenge To Meta Data Laws

Thu Sep 10 10:30:21 EST 2015

At this early stage it would be around the broadcasting act vs meta data laws and which law takes precedence.

I feel the legal defence would be around the products themselves the competing laws and how we have contradictions in them then and what law is true and correct, then you would tie in the disadvantages this places on whole of business providers, or the extra costs to split off the business into separate entities etc then you would look at case law to backup your argument.

Yes agreed doing it just around anti-competitve alone wouldn’t work but you can use it and even tie it into Australian Consumer Law as well and Trade Practices Act saying well if a company was to do this then it would be illegal so why can the government get away with it….

If we are going to have these laws then the law needs to be rewritten to focus on if you offer these products then you are required to keep records x,y,z etc for data retention….

Leaving it up to each service provider isn’t acceptable as one service provider will say based on what the AG and the law has said then I need to retain x,y,z where another service provider might say I only need to retain x and z.

This is what happens when the overpaid people in Canberra try and make laws on stuff they don’t understand…. Even the police send interception requests through for stuff like can I have the internet details for 192.168.1.254 please….

As for all of us lobbing the government not to have passed the laws wasn’t ever going to make a bit of difference as the way the current parliament is stacked and the focus on terrorism and from my contacts in Canberra the way it was sold was this is a very important tool for ASIO, AFP and State Police to get data on what these nasty terrorist are doing to strengthen their cases…. Really it means nothing sure it might show two people communicating and they can use metadata to prove their case but they have other tools now to do this without all this useless laws anyhow….  This is part of a bigger long term strategy to spy on all of us but you won’t get the people in Canberra admitting to it….. It will be like the Australian Card all over again where Murdoch and Packer control all the information about all Australian’s…..

Regards

Andrew

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Andrew Kitchen | Business DevelopmentStrategist
PO Box 3279, The Pines, Victoria, 3109
T 1300 789 299 D 03 9909 3102 M 0449 561 461 F 03 8611 7946
a.kitchen at xi.com.au<mailto:a.kitchen at xi.com.au> | www.xi.com.au<http://www.xi.com.au>

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From: Mark Newton
Date: Thursday, 10 September 2015 10:13 am
To: Andrew Mathieson-Blakely
Cc: "AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net>"
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Legal Challenge To Meta Data Laws

On Sep 10, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Andrew Kitchen <a.kitchen at xi.com.au<mailto:a.kitchen at xi.com.au>> wrote:
So in other words if you don’t offer ISP type services and all you do is offer Content based services such as Web Hosting etc then you don’t have data retention obligations.

<dogue>Such wow, many Einstein, so law.</dogue>

Who could possibly have described that before the bill even passed through the Parliament?

I feel there is a viable legal challenge to these laws for ISP’s who offer web hosting and other services

Buckley’s and none.

On what basis would you challenge it? There is no restriction on the Parliament passing laws which have anticompetitive effect, there’s only a prohibition on businesses behaving in certain anticompetitive ways.

If you didn’t want the Parliament to pass laws which had anticompetitive effect, you should have opposed the bill effectively before it passed. Plenty of us were highlighting this exact situation, you can’t say you weren’t warned.

The other anticompetitive side effect of these laws, of course, is that Australian industry participants who must retain data are at a disadvantage with respect to foreign industry participants who don’t. I’d just love to see how you’d propose to address that in a high court action.

  - mark

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