[AusNOG] Netflix in AU, break up Go4, or TPG peering breakup?

Mon Jul 21 15:38:53 EST 2014

Sorry all, missed the scare quotes on the word "cartel" in the previous
email. I don't mean to imply that these organizations are doing anything
which might be construed as malicious or illegal - as Bevan said, good luck
to them: I'd probably do the same in their situation.

-C

On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 3:35 PM, Curtis Bayne <curtis at bayne.com.au> wrote:

> It is somewhat ironic that the "regulation" of domestic interconnection
> resulted in the formation of a 4-way cartel which is nearly single-handedly
> responsible for inflation of domestic transit costs.
>
> To those arguing for more government intervention, my only thoughts are
> that the aforementioned is a prime example of how glacial the regulators
> are in comparison to the industry. Seemingly reasonable short term
> decisions can have pretty major long term impacts.
>
> We're starting to see the infrastructure rot in the last mile (aging
> DSLAMs, contented backhauls still running at 1Gbps) from the lack of
> private infastructure investment due to the now-defunct FTTP NBN.
>
> This is very dangerous territory in which to tread...
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Bevan Slattery <bevan at slattery.net.au>
> wrote:
>
>> Yes.  Yahoo, Google, Akamai, Limelight, Facebook, Microsoft will all tell
>> you that the cost of domestic transit in Australia is high when compared to
>> most other developed countries in the world.  So when users
>> (consumers/voters) want to watch movies on demand they find themselves
>> restricted due to copyright/studio monopolies establishing a different set
>> of licensing arrangements which are burdensome and costly and of course
>> geo-restricting and then a peering arrangement which has not changed
>> since the late 90's which inhibits new entrants from firstly investing in
>> domestic infrastructure and then secondly creating exciting and disruptive
>> services.
>>
>> It is more expensive to connect to your domestic instance of Amazon than
>> your US instance… considerably.  The same will probably happen with Azure,
>> Google Compute.  All because of domestic transit costs.  I'm not blaming
>> those in the club – all the power to them.  Drink away.  But this dance has
>> been going on for 15 years and some how "OzEmail" are still in the GoF
>> despite being a trickle in terms of traffic.  The regulators have created
>> an entrenched club and failed to look at what opportunities we have lost.
>>
>> What if a Nextgen or Vocus were included in a peering arrangement (and
>> the terms of which are supposed to be published on the websites of the GoF
>> as part of the determination)?  We would have a really interesting player
>> to deliver a national domestic product to the networks that would change
>> the commercial paradigm significantly.  But alas we are geo-excluded
>> (copyright), commercially challenge (GoF) and soon to be further legally
>> corn-holed from accessing off-shore content (Copyright Treaty).
>>
>> If you can't see much wrong with that picture then you may have spent too
>> long sniffing the packets :)
>>
>> [b]
>>
>> From: Sam Silvester <sam.silvester at gmail.com>
>> Date: Monday, 21 July 2014 2:45 PM
>> To: "ausnog at lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Netflix in AU, break up Go4, or TPG peering
>> breakup?
>>
>> I'd say based on popularity Netflix seem to have what they need to
>> operate just fine...again, why is this something for the Government to
>> solve? Have Netflix said they have problems / see problems distributing
>> content in Australia? Have other streaming providers?
>>
>>
>> https://getpocketbook.com/blog/netflix-australia-2-stats-scare-local-players/
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Jacob Gardiner <jacob at jacobgardiner.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What about the potential for Australian produced content to be streamed
>>> to your nearest internet connected computer or tablet? Or better yet,
>>> exported via Netflix to a global audience?
>>>
>>> Netflix solve a distribution issue, they’re not a studio. This being
>>> said, Netflix need the infrastructure to be present and that’s what this
>>> conversation is about. The NBN idea was meant to stimulate our industry to
>>> move beyond what it is now and enable businesses LIKE Netflix to set up and
>>> provide new services to Australia. (hence my dig at our dependance on
>>> mining)
>>>
>>> IF the government was to talk to a business like Netflix and ask them
>>> what a fast growing online business needs to operate they’d hopefully be
>>> more receptive than listening to a bunch of complainers (I imagine the
>>> government looks at groups like this as whingers).
>>>
>>> netflix need - good connectivity, everywhere & local film and media
>>> content. - I think most people in AU want the same?
>>>
>>>
>>> On 21 July 2014 at 12:03:59 pm, Lincoln Dale (ltd at arista.com) wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Jacob Gardiner <
>>> jacob at jacobgardiner.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  On 21 July 2014 at 11:18:36 am, Mark Newton (newton at atdot.dotat.org)
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  The Government is entirely impotent in this area.  They cannot force
>>>> an offshore provider to make decisions which are suboptimal to their
>>>> business.
>>>>
>>>> This is exactly where the mindset needs to change.
>>>>
>>>> If the Government wants a business like Netflix and many others to
>>>> invest into Australia’s market then there should be incentives to do so.
>>>>
>>>
>>> umm. Just exactly what do you think the 'government' gets out of Netflix
>>> and others offering services in Australia? And what makes you think thats
>>> "investing in Australia" ?
>>>
>>> Employees in Australia? Not likely. At least not any more than they
>>> would otherwise have.
>>>
>>> Equipment in Australia? Possibly. But I can pretty much guarantee that
>>> not a single physical thing inside a server, disk, NIC or switch has been
>>> manufactured in Australia.
>>>
>>> Netflix buying more of that 'stuff' may indirectly contribute to
>>> suppliers to Netflix, but likely that doesn't magically result in more tax
>>> $ to the Australian Government or magically promote 'investment' in
>>> Australia.
>>> You think otherwise?
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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