[AusNOG] IPv4

Graeme Allen gallen at mytelecom.com.au
Sat Mar 2 19:08:13 EST 2013

It's Saturday, and I'm a bit bored, apologies in advance for any offense

[IPv6 - Scene #1]

[Hipster #1] - Hey did you notice that the InstaFaceGramGrinderSpace
thingy hasn't worked properly since Sunday night? Hey, Nathanyall, you
know about computers, didn't you queue for 3 days for your new phone? 

[Hipster#2] Yeah, but have an iPhone and Mac, everything works perfectly
for me, you should get a mac. Why is my Frappe taking so long?

[Slightly outcast acquaintance #1] Don't you use the same ISP as me?

[Hipster #1] IS what now? I've got a notebook, HP I think.

[Slightly outcast acquaintance #1] Don't worry. Didn't you get an email
from HyperMegaNet about them turning on IPv6 last week, if you wanted to
opt-out there was a link to a form where you could say no.

[Hipster #1] Do you mean Facebook? Right, so someone broke my internet
and now I have to call them to fix it, what's their number?

[ISP Help desk operator] - Hello Jaamie, how can I help you?

[Hipster #1] - My InstaFaceGramGrinderSpace is broken, apparently you
turned on i6 on Sunday and now nothing works, I want it put back the way
it was, now.

[ISP Help desk operator] - We did send you an IPv6 opt-out form. If you
just have a minute I am sure we can get your PC working properly again.

[Hipster #1] - I don't have a minute, I want it put back the way it
was ,now, it's not my problem, I want to speak to a manager. I saw an ad
on a tram for internet that was half the price I pay you.

[ISP Help desk operator] - I understand sir, I'll put it back now, it
will just take a moment, there, done, sorry for the inconvenience.

[Hipster #1] Thankyou, please don't do that again.

[ISP Manager] - Why did we turn on IPv6 again?

[Network Manager] - We have to migrate people to IPv6 because.........

[approx 8 minutes pass]

[ISP Manager] - Are we charging more for it?

[Network Manager] - No

[ISP Manager] - Can people do more with it?

[Network Manager] - No

[ISP Manager] - Does it lower our costs?

[Network Manager] - No, it sort of increases them in the short term

[ISP Manager] - How many extra calls have we had per day since?

[Network Manager] - About a 300% increase

[ISP Help Desk Manager] - You're fired.


IP what now? 

On Sat, 2013-03-02 at 18:20 +1100, Joshua D'Alton wrote:
> Cheers Bevan
> The solution to 1. is to charge full economic prices for things, that
> will hit people where their hearts are; their wallets. You could even
> do it like the fee added on when you get your car serviced "oil
> disposal".. instead it would be "IPv4 provisioning" or something like
> that.
> If all the drug dealers in "The Wire" could get together and sort out
> there minor problems for a massive gain in cooperative bargaining,
> then while it is a TV show, perhaps we can aspire to do the same
> thing.
> I'm not proposing serversaustralia and ozservers and nextDC be the
> only ones to stick their necks out, but I don't think it would be seen
> as conspiracy or market manipulation by the government were they to
> get together and work out a plan that would see them all through the
> next 5 years of transition. The reverse way of dealing it would be to
> discount services that operate on IPv6-only, that might have less of
> an impact on the customer.
> Of course, that would actually require the cost of IPv4 going up, not
> down like it has in this case. Still, if companies were made to pay
> 10x what they are now for ip space, they might consider the current
> pain vs future pain equation to start weighing heavily in the now.
> On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Bevan Slattery
> <Bevan.Slattery at nextdc.com> wrote:
>         Thanks for the reply Joshua.  The issues in my mind are:
>         1.  Lack of education and awareness with end-users
>         2.  Lack of a coherent and seamless migration strategy
>         (including tools) not just for industry/network operators but
>         also for end-users
>         3.  Poor management of limited resources (IP addresses)
>         How can we expect users to plan for migration if the people
>         who operate the networks themselves can't even articulate
>         first what the problem is and secondly how to solve it?
>         So unless us as an industry come up with a solution 2) and
>         communicate 1) then all we have to rely on is efficient
>         resource management 3).
>         [b]
>         From: Joshua D'Alton <joshua at railgun.com.au>
>         Date: Saturday, 2 March 2013 3:52 PM
>         To: "ausnog at ausnog.net" <ausnog at ausnog.net>
>         Subject: Re: [AusNOG] IPv4
>         Resent-From: Bevan Slattery <bevan.slattery at nextdc.com>
>         The unsaid thing here seems to be the cost, to the company, to
>         the customers, to whoever. 
>         I'd suggest that businesses that operate on low margins are
>         always going to feel more threatened when their business model
>         comes under attack, but that is their cross to bear not the
>         internet communities'.
>         When you have providers selling virtual servers for $5/month,
>         dedicated IP/hosting for $3/month, dedicated servers for
>         $99/month and so on, you start to have complaints from people
>         who can't afford to role out IPv6, or are worried about losing
>         their customer base if they try pass on some of the costs to
>         them. Sure there are lots of companies complaining who do
>         operate on high margins, and people on low margins not
>         complaining, but they aren't the ones with a fundamental
>         business model problem.
>         It seems people have made their beds, and as painful as it is,
>         they are going to have to sleep in them. The people still
>         playing pass the parcel with this ticking time bomb when it
>         goes off are going to take a far larger hit in 5 years than if
>         they bite the bullet now and get IPv6 ready. And conversely,
>         they are paying a much higher price now than they would have
>         even 5 years ago.
>         People complain about software not working properly with IPv6,
>         well it might have been time to kick up a fuss about that 10
>         years ago, not in 5 years time and still expect something to
>         be done when the horse has well and truly bolted. We've had
>         client-side IPv6 support for going on 10 years now, and while
>         it isn't anywhere near perfect and there is still a lot to be
>         done... well its all been said already.
>         On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Bevan Slattery
>         <Bevan.Slattery at nextdc.com> wrote:
>                  Yes we have been running out for the last 10 years -
>                 I get it.  But here's the news flash - we are going to
>                 keep running out for at least the next 5, because the
>                 network operator doesn't always determine the
>                 timetable for migration of course and unless they
>                 don't care about having customers.
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