[AusNOG] Why is peering in Australia so hard?

Sun Aug 4 16:16:03 EST 2013

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something that has always wondered me in the AU/NZ peering scenario is
the lack of Internest in bilateral sessions. Route-servers are good,
but direct sessions are always preferred. adds to opex, but also makes
your routing table richer and less dependent on the Route-server.

- -gaurab

On 8/4/13 7:11 AM, Wolfgang Nagele wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
> The only difference that I can agree to is the distance between
> major cities. All the rest is the same in every market around the
> world. In my mind the vast distances between major cities should
> make the case for peering even stronger. Also as far as distance
> and availability of IXes goes Australia is not that much different
> from the US. Most peering in the US is carried out at the West and
> East coast - same as in Australia.
> 
> I did receive a reply off-list that pointed out what I believe may
> be the real reason for the difference in peering culture. In
> Australia the Internet did not start with small ISPs all over the
> place - it started with the Incumbent. That makes for a very
> different dynamic around market control.
> 
> Cheers, Wolfgang
> 
> On 8/4/13 9:40 AM, "Mark ZZZ Smith" <markzzzsmith at yahoo.com.au 
> <mailto:markzzzsmith at yahoo.com.au>> wrote:
> 
> I think it could be a symptom of a few differences between
> Australia and other regions.
> 
> Australia has a small number of large cities, spread apart by 100s 
> of Kms. As a consequence, there are only a small number of IXes in 
> each city, and the network effect (the more something is used, the 
> more valuable it becomes), keeps that number of IXes small. If 
> you're going to connect to an interstate IX, you need to be large 
> enough to afford that sort of infrastructure (e.g, be able to
> afford to pay for a reasonable bandwidth link that goes 100s of
> Kms), and you're going to go to the most popular IX(es) to gain the
> best value from peering.
> 
> Once you connect to an IX, multilateral peering with a couple of
> the IX's route servers provides more value than bilaterally peering
> in most cases, because you avoid the administrative overhead of
> all those bilateral peering setups.
> 
> To be worth doing, bilateral peering would need to either provide
> a peering with somebody who won't multilateral peer at an IX, or 
> peering that provides more useful value than what the existing 
> multilateral peering provides.
> 
> Regards, Mark.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 
*From:* Shaun McGuane <shaun at rackcentral.com.au
> <mailto:shaun at rackcentral.com.au>> *To:* Tom Paseka
> <tom at cloudflare.com <mailto:tom at cloudflare.com>>; Wolfgang Nagele 
> <wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au 
> <mailto:wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au>> *Cc:*
> "Ausnog at ausnog.net <mailto:Ausnog at ausnog.net>" <Ausnog at ausnog.net
> <mailto:Ausnog at ausnog.net>> *Sent:* Sunday, 4 August 2013 3:16 AM 
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Why is peering in Australia so hard?
> 
> Hi Guys,
> 
> I just wanted to chime in here ? We are peering with Wolfgang and
> set it up last week. We are all for peering .. and if anyone wants
> to reach out and peer with us we have gear/pop in the following
> locations.
> 
> 530 Collins St (MDF / & MDC Level 15 ) 525 Collins St (MDF Rialto
> Towers) NextDC M1 Primus DC Melbourne Vocus Doody St Sydney
> 
> Regards Shaun McGuane
> 
> 
> *From:*AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf
> Of *Tom Paseka *Sent:* Sunday, 4 August 2013 3:01 AM *To:* Wolfgang
> Nagele *Cc:* Ausnog at ausnog.net <mailto:Ausnog at ausnog.net> 
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Why is peering in Australia so hard?
> 
> Wolfgang,
> 
> Australia isn't opposed to peering any more or less so than Europe.
> Difference is many operators wont set up direct sessions over the
> fabric, instead relying on peering with the Route Server(s) to
> exchange routes.
> 
> Cheers, Tom
> 
> On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 7:24 AM, Wolfgang Nagele 
> <wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au 
> <mailto:wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au>> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Coming from Europe I have to say that I am still surprised about
> the reluctance in Australia to peer with each other. Leaving the
> large players and their various (mainly) political motives aside,
> why the reluctance among the small providers here?
> 
> To put it into perspective, we've just recently rolled out a 
> substantial global Anycast deployment and while we are struggling
> to get decent numbers of peers at various IXes here we've
> established many in both Europe and the US.
> 
> Anybody can shed some light on this issue for me?
> 
> And for those that actually just would like to peer - our details
> are here: http://as58620.peeringdb.com 
> <http://as58620.peeringdb.com/>
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -- Wolfgang Nagele IT Manager AusRegistry Pty Ltd Level 8, 10
> Queens Road Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, 3004 Phone +61 3 9866
> 3710 Email: wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au 
> <mailto:wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au> Web:
> www.ausregistry.com.au <http://www.ausregistry.com.au/>
> 
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- -- 

http://www.gaurab.org.np/

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