[AusNOG] New /21 on Bogan / Delinquent Lists

McDonald Richards macca at vocus.com.au
Mon Sep 21 13:45:40 EST 2009

> What happened to the 'IP phone in each NOC' project so you could just dial
an AS and speak to the NOC easily? Is that still going?

INOC-DBA is still running. http://www.pch.net/inoc-dba/

Oh and don't try and call 4826 right now as I need to fix my line ;)


From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net
[mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Shaun Dwyer
Sent: Monday, 21 September 2009 1:30 PM
To: Bill Walker
Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] New /21 on Bogan / Delinquent Lists

Hi Bill, Shane,

While yes, that is true about legacy AUNIC ranges, there are other contact
records you can dig up.

For example, look at the AS that is advertising the range you're interested
in look at the whois data not just for that range and the advertising AS,
 but also on the other ranges being advertised by that AS. I'm sure that for
most networks of interest, there will be multiple IP ranges being
advertised. Failing that, www.$AS-owner.tld/contact.html ?

Might be less automated, but its by no means impossible to get in touch.

Shane, billing data, as you're well aware (especially from previous
employment we've had together) is generally the most up to-date, especially
where any billing is done at frequent intervals. 

What happened to the 'IP phone in each NOC' project so you could just dial
an AS and speak to the NOC easily? Is that still going?


On 20/09/2009, at 9:02 AM, Bill Walker wrote:

Most of those legacy assignments, especially the small ones don't get
charged anything. So there will be no billing.
From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net [ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On
Behalf Of Shane Short [shane at short.id.au]
Sent: Friday, 18 September 2009 10:26 p.m.
To: Shaun Dwyer
Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] New /21 on Bogan / Delinquent Lists

On 18/09/2009, at 4:46 PM, Shaun Dwyer wrote:

On 18/09/2009, at 8:26 AM, Shane Short wrote:

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 09:29:37 +1000, "Darren Moss" <Darren.Moss at em3.com.au>

I am surprised that in this day and age we don't have.....

A) APNIC checking block owner details and suspending where information is
not correct (ie: automatic email checking or automatic phone dialer with
response keys required)

This may sound rather daft, but if the contact information for the
particular IP block is incorrect, how does APNIC get in contact with the
person to tell them their details are wrong? What about all the legacy
AUNIC blocks that were brought over that aren't associated with an APNIC

I'm not even so sure how APNIC would go about 'suspending' the IP address
space, especially if they're unable to contact the owner. Maybe they'd
publish it in a blacklist of sorts? I wonder how long it'd take someone to
realise this and get on the phone to their lawyer, because these 'APNIC'
people have stopped their internets working.

I agree with Darren on this one. Sanity checking contact data is always a
good thing.

As to how to get in touch, APNIC would get in touch using their billing
data. If there is anything you can rely on being up to date, its a billing

Given that invoices are sent out once a year by APNIC for members to renew,
contact details should perhaps be updated at this point in time too. Perhaps
even just an automated email goes out requiring a link be clicked to say
'yes, im alive and paying attention' once every 6 months? No response in 2
weeks? escalate to a billing contact, still no response?, flag as 'needs a
phone call'. Shouldn't need to hire any more people, just a bit of work for
the in-house development team.

You've never tried to get in contact with someone with technical clue via
the billing department before, have you? :)
Sure, in an ideal world this'd work, but the problem is again the legacy
AUNIC ranges in 203/8 which are so so old they almost definitely don't have
the correct info. (if you recall shaun, a few of the old ranges at one of
our previous employers were, and continue to be incorrect)

Don't get me wrong, APNIC do a great job... just like with anything, there
is always scope for improvement.

Sure, APNIC do a great job and they continue to do so when with their
de-bogoning project, but why should APNIC be held responsible for people who
don't set their equipment up properly, or don't maintain it correctly? 

As a community, we're responsible for the current mess and as a community, I
think we should make some kind of effort to try and resolve the problem,
which comes back to my original suggestion of a 'known offenders' list of
networks who don't keep their filtering up-to-date along with methods in
which to contact them in the event they are incorrectly blocking you. This
would've been a great help when I was trying to contact certain people,
that's for sure. Also the publicness of it might encourage them to rethink
their policies.



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